Should I apply to elite schools?

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everyone, I’m a high school senior currently undergoing my college search. While I’ve been searching for the colleges that best fit my needs, I’ve stopped to wonder if it’s worth applying to some of them, and what my chances are of making it into a more elite university.

To give you some background info, I have a 34 on the ACT and a 9 on the writing section, a 4.21 weighted GPA and somewhere around a 3.75-3.85 unweighted GPA. I’ve placed 2nd in the state in DECA competition and advanced to the international level of competition, which I feel could be significant because I want to study business in college. During high school, I’ve taken 3 AP classes, 4 dual enrollment classes, 2 dual credit classes, and all the rest except for a couple were honors. I have good essay writing skills which I think will also help me with applications and such. I have also applied to the National Honors Society at my school and have a good chance of being accepted into that as well.

My college search has been centered around focusing on the schools that have “elite” business programs (Michigan, Virginia, Emory, Penn, etc.). Money isn’t an issue, so I’m simply focused on getting into the best school possible. I’ve come to the point now where I don’t want to take the time and effort to apply to a school that I don’t have a chance of being accepted to, which is why I’ve come here to ask for some insight.

My end goal is to be accepted to the most elite business school possible, so I’m wondering if any of you can provide some insight as to what my chances may be of being accepted into one of the more elite business schools and also which “tier” of school I should focus on applying to given my achievements and desires regarding a good business program.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can share some knowledge, it helps me a lot.

2

Well, if you don’t apply to the reach schools on your list, your chance of admission is exactly zero. Having stated that, you may want to look at Section C7 of the Common Data Sets for the schools that you have listed. Some schools such as Michigan and UVA consider GPA as a “very important” admissions factor and standardized test scores as an “important” admissions factor; for other schools, which admissions factors are considered as “very important” and “important” may vary. My point is, your chances at admissions need to be considered in light of what each school views as relevant admissions factors.

Also, Part C9 of the Common Data Set gives the median 50% for both SAT and ACT scores, as well as the percentage of the entering first-year class falling within certain ranges of SAT and ACT scores; Part C11 gives the percentage of entering first-year students falling within a range of unweighted GPA on a 4.0 scale, and Part C12 gives the average high school GPA of first-year applicants. You can compare your statistics with those of recent entering students, and get some idea of where you fall in comparison. If you are going to be an OOS applicant for a public university, then as a rule of thumb you want to be above the 75th percentile of the entering students to have a realistic chance of admission, unless you have some admission “hooks” (URM, 1st generation college student, D-1 athlete, legacy) that can separate you from the rest of the OOS applicant pool.

I don’t know whether your high school has Naviance or any similar program that gives information about how students at your high school have done in applying to colleges and universities; if so, you might peruse that data for the colleges that you are interested in. I would also try to meet with a guidance counselor at your school as soon as possible if you haven’t done so in order to discuss what universities you might target, and what your specific application strategies for such schools should be. If any former students from your school have been admitted to the schools on your list in the recent past, the guidance counselor may be able to give some insight into how and why such student(s) were successful.

I wouldn’t get hung up on getting into what other people may perceive as an “elite” school, or be overly concerned with the rankings that give a perception of eliteness; you can still obtain a very fine education at places that don’t have the highest level of “prestige”. If you know what you might want to study in a business school, look at the reputation of the particular business school for that area of study and be guided by that. For example, while the University of Tennessee at Knoxville generally may not be considered a prestigious institution overall, the Haslam College of Business at UTK has one of the top logistics/supply chain management programs in the country; and the graduates from that program are highly sought after and have a very high rate of employment after graduation. (You can find other examples, this is just one that came to my mind.) As the old saying goes, You can’t always judge a book by its cover. Or, to put it another way, don’t let your ego get in the way of a good education.

What is your state of residence? Besides Michigan, Virginia, Emory, and Penn, what other schools are on your current list?

3

Your numbers (ACT score & GPA) are fine for the schools on your list.

It would be helpful to know of your class rank, rigor of courses taken & whether or not you have done well in math.

4

Your state will definitely matter. If you were instate, UVA would be a clear match, while out of state it’s still a reach. I’d guess the same would be true of Michigan. But neither is so much of a reach that it’s not worth applying if you like them. And while Wharton is a big reach, it’s fine to have a couple of schools like that if you have at least two or three also that are clearly less difficult to get into than those on your list.

At UVA, you have to apply for the business school, and you don’t find out if you’re in until spring of your second year. About 65% get in. If you have really good grades, your odds may be somewhat higher, but they’re not going to be 100%. So you probably should give some priority to business schools that you can get into directly (or just choose when you enroll), if you’re so sure about wanting to be in business.

5

Consider applying EA to Michigan’s Ross School of Business.

You can also apply ED to another school.

6

A few things from the parent of a kid who recently graduated from business school:

  1. While your gpa & ACT are high enough to make you competitive at just about any school, be aware thst most top business schools are harder to get into than their university is in general. So, although you'd likely get into at least one of the 4 schools you mentioned if you were intending to be a psychology major, it's quite possible you wouldn't get into any otf their business schools.
  2. Internships are very very important...not only in the summers but during the school years as well. Business schools at places like Southern Methodist U., DePaul, U of Southern California, Boston U, and U of Richmond might be ranked below the ones you mentioned, but they close the gap somewhat due to the enormous variety of internships within minutes of campus.
  3. The companies and geographic locations where you intern might end up being where you spend the rest of your career, so choose wisely.
  4. Grades matter, at least in getting internships & your first job. So don't dispair if you don't get into a tip-top elite business school...it will probably be an opportunity to get a great GPA.
7

Since those are all reaches, I suggest you add Indiana’s Kelly school of business to your list as a little easier to get into. I believe they have direct admit to the business school too which is nice.

Good luck!

8

@gandalf78 Thank you so much for the response, that’s some excellent info. I didn’t even know about the Common Data Set, so thank you for bringing that to my attention. I also appreciate the comment about focusing on a particular area of study, I will certainly do that going forward. I’m leaning towards getting a degree in economics (Business Administration is also a possibility, maybe supply chain if I decide to go to UTK) so I may look into schools that do economics well.

Do you think that I should stray away from the schools that consider GPA (or maybe class rigor) a very important factor due to my GPA and classes I’ve taken and my good test scores? I ask only because I’m not sure how good my GPA is or how rigorous the classes that I’ve taken are in comparison to other applicants.

To answer your questions, I live in Tennessee and am in the process of applying to UTK right now. I’ve already been accepted to Alabama and been granted a presidential scholarship, but I’m more focused on getting the best education than I am about saving money. I don’t really have a “list” right now, but I toured Emory and loved it, the only downside is the lack of sports teams to support and school spirit seems to lack there. I would love to go to Michigan as well but I’m not sure what my odds are of making it, which is partly why I created this thread in the first place. Other than those schools, I’m still trying to create a list and I’m hoping feedback from this thread will help me choose what type of schools to include in my list.

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@Publisher

  1. My county stopped doing class rank after my Freshman year.
  2. I included how many AP, DE, and DC classes I've taken, are there other aspects that play into class rigor?
  3. I consider math my weakest subject but I'm not sure how that applies here.
  4. I plan on applying EA to all the schools I end up applying to.
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@Wilson98

  1. All of my reach schools that I'm looking at are OOS
  2. I have 2 safety schools, one of which I have been accepted to and got a presidential scholarship.
  3. Thank you for the info on Virginia. Just out of curiosity, if I was accepted to UVA but not the business school, what would I do then? Have to pick another area of study?
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@AlmostThere2018

Are you saying that those schools are reaches for almost all students, or for me specifically given my academic record?

Also, thanks for the Indiana recommendation, I’ve seen Indiana pop up whenever I research great business schools, and I believe they’re consistently ranked in the top 15 or 20 business programs. If they do in fact have automatic admission to the business school that is definitely a plus. Thanks for sharing!

12

OP, a few more comments.

In regard to your question, “Do you think that I should stray away from the schools that consider GPA (or maybe class rigor) a very important factor due to my GPA and classes I’ve taken and my good test scores?”, my response is, Not necessarily. Many universities will take a “holistic” approach to admissions; and there may be something about you in your application that is something that a particular university is looking for: perhaps you are a first-generation college student; or perhaps there is something in your ECs that demonstrates passion for or leadership in something. It’s not entirely about the numbers, although they are important. Also, with regards to the classes you’ve taken (“rigor of secondary school record”), I think that colleges and universities want to see that you have challenged yourself, and taken the advanced/honors/AP courses that are available to you at your school – not all schools offer the same type or number of AP classes, for example; but if you’ve taken most of what your school has to offer, then that is more important than simply the number of APs that you have taken.

There are a couple of schools with well-regarded business schools that you might want to consider in addition to what you and other posters have mentioned: the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, which has the Kenan-Flagler School of Business; and Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, which has the Farmer School of Business. Miami of Ohio is one of the original “Public Ivies” and I think that you would probably be a match there; UNC-CH is a “Public Ivy”, and would be a reach for you as an OOS applicant (as it is for every OOS applicant), but still might merit a closer look by you. (If you do look at UNC-CH and think that you might apply there, you should know that it has an Early Action application deadline that is really early – October 15, which is 2-4 weeks sooner than many schools.) Another school you might want to look into is the University of South Carolina, which has one of the higher ranked programs in international business (if that appeals to you).

To follow up on an issue that some of the other posters have raised, wherever you look at business schools, investigate whether they are direct admit or whether you have to apply for entry after you are admitted to the university. Looking at the specific university forums here on College Confidential may be a way to gather anecdotal or other information on the difficulty of admission into such business programs.

Based on some of your responses, I gather that you attend a public high school? I mention this because you should make every effort to get some face time with your guidance counselor this Fall, if you haven’t already – and sooner rather than later – to discuss application strategies for various colleges and universities. Be persistent in getting to meet with your GC, and make sure that s/he knows you.

Besides Emory, what other colleges/universities have you visited in person?

13

if money not an issue NYU should be on the list

14

Georgetown’s McDonough School of Business is another excellent business school to add to the list.

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@Bromfield2 Thanks for the suggestion, that one will probably end up on my list! Would you consider it a far reach given my academic record, or do I have a decent chance of acceptance?

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@wertu12 Definitely, I’ve looked into NYU and I think the abundance of internship and career opportunities itself makes NYU worth applying for.

17

Being a full pay definitely ups your chances at all those schools.

18

@CU123 But how do colleges know I’m a full pay from looking at my application?

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@CrimsonToe: From the FAFSA and the CSS profiles.

And, Georgetown is going to be a reach.

20

With a 15% acceptance rate for its undergraduate program, it seems like Georgetown McDonough is a reach for almost everyone. If you like the program after visiting, I’d say go for it.