Big merit NMF/NMSF schools and their specialties

Paying for College National Merit Aid
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I was hoping to create a thread that describes the schools that offer Big Merit for NMF/NMSF status. In particular what is the vibe of each school? What strong programs does each school offer? Other standout features of each school? Particular amenities? Possible downsides? Also, what schools are “overlaps” with each school?

ETA: By “overlap” I include schools that may be better known/more rejective, and the NMF/NMSF school can act as an admission and financial safety (or may be your first choice.)

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I will go first, as this is the school I know best:

Fordham University.

NMFs and NMSFs can get a 4 year full tuition scholarship. Not every NMF/NMSF receives it, but about 70% do. Fordham also gives out a small number of full rides (tuition, room and board, fees, stipend.)

Fordham is located in NYC. There are 2 campuses. The Rose Hill campus has ~8,000 undergrads and is in the Bronx next to the Botanical gardens and Bronx Zoo. It is a beautiful gated traditional campus. The Lincoln Center Campus is in Manhattan near Central Park and has ~2,000 students.

Fordham is a private Catholic University, specifically Jesuit (the most liberal branch of Catholicism.) Fordham is very welcoming to non-Catholics (my kid is an atheist and it has been a non-issue.) Fordham is known to be very LGBTQ+ friendly.

Standout programs include: Business, philosophy, dance, theater, theology, communication & media studies, social work. Really just about anything in the humanities is good. Biology is also strong, but the rest of STEM doesn’t tend to be.

“Overlaps” for the Lincoln Center campus might be NYU, Emerson, The New School/Eugene Lang, American.

“Overlaps” for the Rose Hill campus might be Boston College, Georgetown, Notre Dame. Columbia.

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Ok, hoping more National Merit students/parents will chime in about the schools they know. Tagging some that I think might have kids at certain schools (but I know there are lots more!)
Alabama @Dis3456 @Peruna1998
UT-Dallas and University of Oklahoma @3scoutsmom
USC @vistajay @collegemom12345 @NJ08809 @MauiSusan111

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The University of Alabama NMF program is very well defined. A NMF who chooses Alabama as their first choice institution prior to the May 1st cutoff will be offered a scholarship currently covering: five (5) years of tuition, four (4) years of '“on-campus” housing, an annual stipend, and a study abroad stipend.

Most NMF students would also qualify for the Honors program at Alabama, which would qualify you for Honors housing and priority registration.

“On-campus housing” – this is a big deal, currently (set aside the demographic cliff coming). Housing at any public university is a major issue. Alabama will pay for your NMFs housing currently for four (4) years. Now, you do have to jump through some hoops to get the housing you want (but that is life). Housing may not be “on campus”, but may be master leased apartments off campus, which the students likely prefer after the first year.

Net costs (for us) after paying for the required meal plan (and you really do not need the top food plan, despite what S24 says) were about $3500 for the year (which was basically…well, food).

Alabama is generous with AP, IB, and CLEP. Alabama has a great sports environment (no, really?), even outside of football and men’s basketball (adapted sports, e.g., wheelchair basketball, constantly wins national titles).

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UTD has been AMAZING for my two boys! Their NMS is really what they promise and the “perks” like priority housing and priority registration have been invaluable. Research opportunities for undergrads are readily available. My oldest did the Clark Research program the summer between high school and college (fully funded). He also enjoyed a summer program in Korea fully paid by the UTD’s NMS. Unfortunately, my younger son was not able to participate in either study abroad or the Clark program due to Covid. Both boys have been able to finish their undergrad early with the use of AP and DE credits and use their remaining NMS to cover grad school. Both kids are CS majors, the youngest just started his “dream internship” in Houston that should lead to employment at or very close to 6 figures when he graduates next year. Older son accepted the Mc Dermott Graduate Fellowship to stay at UTD to complete his PhD and already has is name on a pretty major paper. Both boys “found their people” at UTD and feel that they’ve gotten a quality education. UTD was the perfect fit for them, their education cost us next to nothing, they’ll both leave UTD with no debit, money in the bank and a solid education.

Even with NM OU had much more of an out of pocket cost. The “fees” were just crazy, thankfully DD was able to get several outside scholarships that helped but OU was not a full ride which we knew going in but it ended up costing more than anticipated. My daughter loved her classes in her major (meteorology) but she had to take some gen ed classes that were disappointing. There was an advising error and she was made to take a physics lab even though she had AP credit for the classes, the lab was run by a TA that did not understand the subject and could not control the class. She ended up not double majoring in CS as planned because she thought the CS classes were not that good. She did make friends there but over all did not fit into the general school culture. She did stay for grad school and was able to use some of her NM to cover some of the cost. If I had to do it again, I would have pushed her into going to Florida State instead.

Overall, other than the price difference and campus culture I found the biggest difference between the two schools to be the academic level of the general school population, my daughter did a lot of tutoring and was amazed to find so many students not having what she considered to be basic high school math skills. I think UTD is more selective and by the nature of their campus culture atracks more “serious” students.

If you have any specific questions about either school please feel free to ask.

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Great idea for a thread. We talk a lot on CC about the usual suspects (Bama, UCF, UT-Dallas, Tulsa, Maine, etc.), and understandably so, as they have great opportunities. But there are other schools out there with strong Natl Merit aid that don’t get as much love. In my general area (Greater Texas), you have Texas Tech offering full COA for NMF, and Oklahoma State offering full tuition plus $10k stipend (so very close to COA). I don’t know much about OSU as far as specialties, but I am familiar with Tech - both parents are grads, and I know plenty of alums from various eras. Tech was founded essentially to educate farmers, and even today its agriculture-related programs like ag economics, food science, natural resource management, etc. are very strong. Also known for pre-med and other health science programs, as the TTU Health Sciences Center is right on campus.

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Thank you so much for this review of Alabama–super helpful! A couple of other questions if you are willing:

  1. Besides being great for all sports, anything else about the vibe of Alabama that prospective students should know? (e.g. Greek vs. non-Greek? Would a kid from outside of Alabama be able to make friends? Do you know anything about campus climate for LGBT+ kids etc?)
  2. Any standout majors you are aware of?
  3. If money and/or selectivity were no objects, what other schools might your student have considered?
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Thank you so much for these reviews! Super helpful! If you are willing, could you tell a little more about the following?:

  1. Could you talk a little more about the “vibe” of both UT-Dallas and University of Oklahoma? (examples might be would out-of-state students feel comfortable? Are frats/sororities big? Sports? LGBTQ+ fitting in? Racial/ethnic diversity?)
  2. Any standout majors you are aware of?
  3. If money and/or selectivity were no objects, what other schools might your students have considered?

Thank you!

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Thank you for this review of Texas Tech! Especially important to highlight schools with strong health sciences opportunities as many National Merit students are pre-med. Could you say anything more about the “vibe” of Texas Tech? Any “overlap schools” you can think of? Thanks in advance!

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  1. My son is gay and involved in many of the on campus LGBT organizations. Many of his friends are LGBT. Alabama was, nationally, one of the first universities to allocate university funds to LGBT organizations on campus. It cost the university in state enrollment in the '80s so much that at the time they offered in state students free housing. So, Alabama is a very LGBT friendly school (see its Pride Index score). As for Greek life, while it does run the SGA, if you want to be involved, fine. If you do not want to be involved, fine. The best I can say about it is that it is there if you want it. From my family’s perspective, S22 has mentioned wanting to join a professional, engineering fraternity next year (they are coed).

  2. Engineering at Alabama is quite good. Regionally, from west Tennessee and northern Alabama to the Research Triangle in North Carolina, there are many new technological jobs. The University is very plugged into this and actively tries to get its students internships and coops in these fields. Aerospace and fields related to automotive specialties are well-regarded coming out of Alabama. The University has a natural tie to NASA and the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville (and all the private Aerospace in the state). Its Astrobotics team has won more national championships in the past decade than football (think on that for just a second). Its Ecocar team is top notch. BamaSat was recently slated for launch. None of these organizations are competitive to join. They want students to join. Touring the facilities for the teams was amazing.

  3. S22 was not totally interested in the admissions process. But, it came down to A&M and Bama for him. He is in computer science. While A&M has a wonderful scholarship for NMF students, the ETAM requirements for computer science (and the size of engineering in general) were off-putting. At Bama, he was guaranteed a seat in his major of choice. No worries about competing to get it. He has learned that he also enjoys geography. So, on the University’s dime, he is getting a double major in compsci and geography with a master’s in compsci. Plus, this summer, he is doing a University program in Ireland (mostly on the University’s dime).

Bama was not S22’s first choice. But, it was the right choice. He enjoyed his first year, made great friends (saying a lot for an introvert), and is looking forward to going back. Roll Tide. Lastly, money saved from college can now be rolled into his IRA which he understands. So, not only is he getting a virtually free college education, he is saving for retirement (win/win).

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Glad to share what I know, with the caveat that I haven’t been on campus in years and am neither parent nor alum. Traditionally the student body was largely drawn from West Texas and eastern New Mexico - it’s essentially the regional public university for the Texas panhandle region. Lots and lots of small-town kids from farming communities. In recent years, there seem to have been more suburban kids, especially from DFW - large, active alumni base in the Metroplex. Vibe is laid-back and friendly, with a pretty visible Greek scene and no shortage of party opportunities but also enough variety that most students can find their people. Lubbock is pretty isolated - DFW at 5+ hrs and Denver at 6+ hrs are the closest major cities - and doesn’t really have much nightlife, but it’s big enough (~250k) to have plenty of suburban amenities off-campus if that’s your thing. If you like the idea of living in a big city, it’s not the place. Lots of school spirit and big D1 sports scene.

Overlaps…Texas A&M is a big one (to use an old SAT analogy, Tech :: West Texas as Texas A&M :: East Texas), though A&M is now much more competitive admissions-wise and has stronger programs in most areas outside of Tech’s specialties. Oklahoma, Okla State, Colo State, U North Texas, and smaller TX publics like Angelo State and West Texas A&M would be others.

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A couple of other things about Alabama that I think are pretty important:

  1. General ed courses total about 24 credit hrs. Which means more time to truly explore and not panic about not graduating in 4 years.
  2. Very easy to switch majors.
  3. Excellent honors programs with many privileges – early registration and smaller classes along with targeted honors programs for various disciplines. Did I mention that engineering honors is an additional $2500 per year?
  4. About 60% of the students are out of state. Strong population of international students too.
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Probably more info than you wanted:

OU is much larger and VERY sports centered. Lots of partying, especially during home football games, lots of drinking! Frats and Sororities are a HUGE deal. There is some ethic diversity but not as much as many other colleges, most of the students come from OK and Texas but there are several out of state and international students. (61.1% white, 11.3% Hispanic, 9% multi, 6.3% Asian, 5.4% AA, 5.2% international) I don’t think anyone in the LGBTQ+ or out of state would feel uncomfortable. I think the Meteorology Program is great and the National Weather Center is located on campus the Music Education program is very good too. They also have a great GEO Science and Petrol engineering program and some aviation programs that I don’t know much about. My daughter was only looking at schools with meteorology programs and she considered University of Miami, Florida State, Cornell, and Texas A&M.

In the grand scheme of things UTD is a very young college and not as steeped in traditions and rituals as many universities, UTD was originally started as a graduate research college and only stared enrolling freshman in 1990. UTD is a smaller very modern campus with lots of new buildings, it is very tech centered and research oriented. It hasa great Neuroscience science and pre-health programs that give students clinical experience at UT Southwestern Medical Center. UTD has a very high acceptance rated to medical schools. Their Physics department is small but very impressive and their CS programs are very well regarded. I’ve heard they have a pretty good Business program but I don’t know much about it.

There’s not enough on campus housing to meet the demand so many students live in off campus apartments, though NMS get priority housing and usually stay on campus all four years due to their stipends. UTD is very welcoming of the LGBTQ+ community and offers the option of gender inclusive housing and has a very active LGBTQ+ service center. There are tons of student clubs and a few Sororities and Fraternities but it isn’t a huge focus. Most students come from Texas but there are many from out of state and international students too, there is a very large Indian/Asian presence (39.5 % Asian, 27.4% white 17.1 Hispanic, 5.1% AA, 4.2% international, 4.1 multi). Students tend to socialize in smaller groups and the campus seems ‘quite’ on the weekends. It is a very academically focused campus. They have some sports like baseball/softball and soccer but the biggest sports are Chess and E-sports. UTD is considered a nerdy school and the students there are proud of that:-) My sons at UTD had more choice/flexiblity as to the honors classes they could take to fulfill their requirements and the honors classes where smaller at UTD than at OU.

My sons considered University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, MIT, and were auto admits for Texas A&M and UT Austin. UTD admits by major unlike TAMU. We are local to UT Austin and the kids have many friends attending there, they were put off by the stories from their friends of not being able to get into required classes to graduate on time and being limited in the number of CS class they could take per semester. Texas A&M doesn’t offer a very straight forward NM package, it’s a combination of many other scholarships but every NM student I know that has gone there has ended up with a full ride or pretty close to it. But having to take “weed out classes” to get into your major was a big turn off. UTD admits by major and doesn’t have weed out classes. They focus on student success and offer lots of free tutoring for freshmen/sophomore classes. Students are encouraged to seek tutoring not because they’re failing a class but also to raise their B to an A.

It’s hard to describe “vibe” I strongly encourage you to visit all the schools on your student’s list and go to UTD’s Scholars Day if you can manage it. UTD is a growing school. It’s located in the North Dallas suburb of Richardson so it’s a very safe campus but close enough to Dallas to enjoy the big city. You’re more likely to find students at UTD playing DnD or hanging out with their study group on the weekend than at a party or a football game like you would at OU. Since you’ll be out of state you might want to look at the transportation cost to and from the universities on your list. It’s likely easier and cheaper to get to Dallas than Norman/OKC. Also the DFW metro is huge and there are many, many more opportunities for internships of all kind than in the Norman/OKC area.

Random info: your student will need to pay federal income taxes on the amount of their scholarship(s) that exceeds tuition and books and required fees, this is true where ever you go. At OU, since the scholarship is from the state of OK you also need to pay state income taxes on that portion of the scholarship even if you are out of state. This isn’t a lot of $$ just a hassle. In Texas there’s no state income tax:-) Both OU and UTD will allow you to keep any outside scholarships that don’t state they aren’t explicitly for tuition only (so long as you aren’t also receiving need based aid). Also UTD didn’t require FAFSA for National Merit but OU did.

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Pretty sure there are other threads about University of Alabama sororities and their competitive rush process.

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More than that (53 credits), but many majors automatically fulfill some of the general education requirements, so the number of credits explicitly needed for general education is usually much smaller than 53 credits.

https://catalog.ua.edu/undergraduate/about/academic-regulations/curriculum/core-curriculum-general-education-requirements/

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Note that, regardless of how welcoming the campus administration and other students are to LGBT+ students, state laws may override that (e.g. bathroom regulation). Attitudes in the local area may also matter, if students commonly do things off-campus in the local area.

Also note that different subsets of the LGBT+ community may be treated differently (e.g. trans-women are much more of a political scapegoat these days than some other parts of the LGBT+ community, so they may face more quality-of-life issues in places where the political scapegoating gets turned to laws against them).

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To that point, my son has trans friends at Alabama. None have had problems to date and all have been treated fairly by the administration.

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Not at all! This is exactly the sort of insider information that I was hoping for! My goal for this thread is to give future National Merit students and their parents lots of info about the schools that give big merit. At a minimum, they can use these schools as their “safeties”, and maybe they will even actively choose them over other great options, as your kids (and mine) did.

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Less for engineering majors. 24 + 2 foreign languages.

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My son chose Alabama over UCSD, UCSB, UCI, UCD, William and Mary, and other schools. Another girl from his school picked Alabama over Yale, USC, UCs, etc. They will be incoming freshmen 2023. So far, Alabama has been great to these kiddos and we’re hoping for a smooth freshman year. I’ll update in this thread after they have been there for a semster, but most of the families seem to be happy after the first year. Keep in mind, if you’re going to apply to Alabama, they have really early deadlines for some of their most competitive and awesome programs. We missed Epic Scholars because he didn’t even apply until February. He is in honors though and happy with that. There are a lot of other opportunities as well. Just apply early if you think you might want to consider Alabama.

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