To Submit or Not to Submit test scores - lessons for class of '24

Applying to College
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I benefitted from the sage advice of the CC community as my children went through this process. Probably no single detail of the process seemed more obscure than the move by many colleges to test-optional. I wanted to share my child’s experience, in case it is useful to anyone in the high school class of 2024.

My child, class of 23, ignored my parental advice, to her profit. She refused to spend time preparing for the SAT/ACT, arguing that test optional meant that she could spend her time doing things she loved, rather than mastering the test. She took the SAT, once, but did not even complete a full practice test the night before. Ditto the ACT. If I had not insisted, she would not have even taken the tests (I thought she would change her mind and want to submit… wrong!).

She was a financial-need kid, unhooked, but with perfect grades (at a mid-level public school in the mid-Atlantic) and strong extracurriculars, including LOTS of music and some “for fun” philosophy courses at the local state univ. Mediocre (for her) test scores, reflecting her effort (or lack rhereof) but not her ability.

Applied test-optional with not a care, hard choices between great schools, will be attending Amherst in the fall (to our surprise).

My point to parents/students: for my daughter, the biggest question was not made AFTER she got her scores, to submit or not based on how high the score was, but long before she took the tests. How will you spend your time?

I have been pondering her experience. For a subset of students, they will want to do well on the tests to makeup for a deficiency in their application vis a vis the type of schools they want to attend(grades not quite where you want them? or ordinary extracurriculars? etc.). For another subset of students, they’ll want to attend MIT, etc., one of the schools that still requires the tests. For a third group of students, they just enjoy challenging themselves with a test. But for a significant number of students, I suspect that their applications will be best served if they cultivate other aspects of their lives/applications this summer and through the school year besides multiple-choice testing.

I take no credit for my child’s decisions, but I am trying to learn from them :slight_smile: I am posting this in hopes that other parents/students from class of '23 can share their experiences (whether similar or different). I recognize the danger of small sample sizes, and love the crowd-sourced knowledge of CC.

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Test optional worked well for my D. She’s a good student, 95% GPA, taking all honors, APs and DE. Strong ECs in performing arts. She did ok on the SAT and ACT, not great, but over 80% for each. We signed her up for Kaplan but she did the bare minimum in studying outside the weekly class.

She applied to 20+ schools for filmmaking and was rejected by just two (USC and BU), waitlisted by two (NYU and Syracuse) and accepted to the rest, including quite a few US New top 100 (Florida State, Fordham, Penn State, UConn). Only FSU required test scores.

I will concede, however, that film schools are much more interested in an applicant’s portfolio than their test scores. And D received merit ranging from $20K to $30k+ at every school admitted to other than out-of-state publics like Penn State and some Cal State schools which aren’t known for merit but did receive in-state tuition from UConn and FSU.

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Congratulations on your D’s acceptance to Amherst. Both my niece and nephew currently attend Amherst. It’s a great school and they both love it. You will probably see Harrison Ford’s son somewhere on campus.

Regarding Test Optional, I think it depends on the student/school. Next year, our 24D will probably ED to a T20 school where almost 80% of kids submitted standardized test scores. Because of this, she wanted to take the tests to potentially increase her odds. Will it actually help? It wont hurt because she scored within the top 25% of the reported score range. It could also probably increase her odds for merit at her safety schools if she cant get into a T20.

The outcome is yet to be determined as we just started the college process. But for our 24D, taking the SAT/ACT was perfectly fine without exhaustive review courses.

Once again, congrats to your D.

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No doubt, there are schools where the expectation is that students will submit! And it sounds like your child is well set in any case :slight_smile: - good for her for doing well without the exhaustive prep!

It is the overwhelming prep that I am thinking might start to fade a bit among some students, interested in particular types of schools.

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My child did not attend an American school system, so SATs were a way to show she was at an expected level in English and Math. She used Kahn Academy for free, which helped her improve, but first practice go online, without any help, was already decent.
Now that she is in her first year, she has found that her country’s “normal” education has been the equivalent of AP level classes. But that is a different conversation.
I think the score helped her get accepted, because she applied RD everywhere. Had she applied ED, I don’t think it would have been as important.

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My experience is from the last cycle but S22 applied to schools TO. He wasn’t looking at T50 schools (apart from his 1 reach - rejected) but did get into most of the schools he applied to (all ranked T50-75). He was a good but not tippy top HS student (3.7UW/4.1W) with good but not top rigor (4 AP, the rest honors - at our school 8 AP is the max) and below average ECs. His recommenders knew him well (had both teachers more than once) and he is a very good writer so his essays were good (not that interesting but very well written). He did take the SAT once (no prep) and got a mediocre score (1200) and decided he didn’t want to spend anytime prepping to do better. This was a hybrid learning year and he was already struggling so I went along with it. I think going TO had zero impact on his admission results. Got into the following: American, Syracuse, Pitt, UConn and UMass (attending) - was rejected by UMD (didn’t apply EA, big mistake) and Wm & Mary (reach).

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My S24 will be applying TO. There is just no way around it and I’m perfectly fine with it. We went through the process with S22 who had a 33 along with strong grades. S24 will have a 4.0 from a rigorous private high school, 12 AP classes but a dismal test score. The thing is, even with prep he wasn’t cracking a score that would be comparable to his grades and rigor, so I just said stop. He of course was delighted. I have friends who spent 15K on test prep then when the student “only” got to a 32, the student went TO. With so many schools inching higher with their average test score - I’ve seen a few with an average of 31 a few years ago now touting a 33 average - that the average will soon cut out a lot of smart kids. I will say, there will be schools he won’t apply to being TO, but I do feel a strong group of schools still have half the admitted students being TO.

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Very good point - that’s another group of students that I did not include in the original point, those not in a US school system, who benefit from the test’s validation of preparation.

For what it’s worth, my child applied everywhere RD - and wasn’t accepted everywhere! (rejected Carleton and Macalester)

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Then there are students like both of my very different kids who test very high with almost no prep. (I forced S23 to spend a total of 10 hours on the ACT in the week of so before he took in at school. He took one practice test, two more math section only tests, and read two essays about the science section.) He got a 35, and it absolutely helped him in merit awards.

If prepping for the tests is going to be a major thing, than yes, I might suggest skipping it. Having them take it first to see seems better. Our family tends to be of the philosophy that the only prep you need is a basic familiarity with the test (i.e. a practice test or two) and that should be enough. If you do well, send them. If not, you certainly could choose to spend your time on other things and not send them like your daughter did. S23 would never have spent any time in the summer working on multiple choice skills.

Also, my older one was homeschooled so the very high SAT and ACT scores were critical to her success in applications and merit. My S23 was homeschooled for two years and at a very small private (class of 17), so his test scores were also important. Homeschoolers are another group that needs the standardized exams.

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Great post! For people reading for ‘24 and beyond, my ‘23 had a similar story. Took SAT once, didn’t do great (it was also the same week as APUSH and APLit tests, so I’m sure that didn’t help…) and did not want to take them again. I thought it was a terrible idea, but took her lead and it worked out. She’s from a large, public, suburban middle class upstate NY highschool, top 10%, 97 average, 5 AP, 2 SUPA(through Syracuse), 2 through SUNY Oswego. Good ECs with leadership roles, but nothing crazy. (Not published/research ect) Writing is her strength. She was accepted at Binghamton, Stony Brook, Syracuse, Geneseo, Cortland and Oswego, all with merit and honors except Bing. Also waitlisted at NYU. She is going to Syracuse with the Coronat scholarship, which is full tuition and expense paid study abroad. Again, no test scores submitted. So not top 20 schools, but I think she ended up doing well! Also, she came home in tears at the end of her junior year saying her counselor told her she wouldn’t get into any good schools if she didn’t take Pre-Calc. She HATES math. She has to put in so much effort to get low 90s, and I’m so proud of how hard she works at it. So I again took her lead and let her take Financial Algebra instead, which is a much easier class, but it checked off that 4th year of math at least. She has a tough senior year schedule (5 college level classes including AP Gov and AP Psych) and had leads in both the Fall Play and Spring Musical(which are a big deal at our school and a ton of work!), and she worked a few hours a week. I’m so glad I let her make the decision on both SAT and math. She’s enjoying her senior year and it all worked out just fine! It’s definitely hard to know when to push and when to let them lead, but I’d rather have a happy, healthy kid than one who is stressed to the max and hating life. IMHO, that’s way better than a top 20 school. Good luck to all!!

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Here is an abbreviated version of our story from another TO thread.

For my student (with an LD), TO is way better. At this point, it looks like he will graduate either #1 or #2 in his class. Tons of leadership, 4 years of 3 varsity sports/ multi-year captain of all 3, teachers can’t say enough about him, well rounded while having a clear passion for the major he applied for, and has done research in his chosen major, BUT he can’t take a standardized test to save his life.

We took a practice ACT and came to the realization that 1) his test scores (unless they were extraordinary) were never going to “add” to his already VERY strong application 2) To bring up his scores to anything other than average was going to take so many hours of prep (we’re talking 100s here) that it was not feasible, advisable or beneficial. Why would he give up time from the very things that make him a great candidate, and that he is passionate about, to spend those hours on something where he could never be above average?

If colleges are telling us they want kids that are passionate, well-rounded, leaders, committed to a cause, etc. why would they want those same students to take time away from what makes them the unique individuals they claim they are searching for to cram for a standardized test that only measures their ability to prepare for a test, their test-taking skills or their parents’ income/educational status.

Results: DS23 applied to the top colleges in his chosen major. There were not any real reaches on his list. He had all of his applications in very early (I believe early October) and had incredible LORs (we didn’t see the letters that were sent, but the same people wrote letters for other awards that we have seen). He got in everywhere he applied with great merit and honors at the schools that offered it.

According to DS college counselor, in the past, they had people looking at (the limited number of) test-optional schools because they knew they would not do well on the ACT/SAT and didn’t want to submit their scores knowing they would be or were low . Now, more kids are looking at schools that are test optional and just avoiding the stress of the test altogether unless they need it to help their application.

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S23’s HS counselor told him very early in the process not to worry about test scores, because colleges did not really care any more about them.

While we were in the thick of the application process, I thought this was bad advice. At that time, I wished S23 had thought about tests earlier and done more prep, so that he would have higher scores to impress colleges more.

In retrospect, I now wish S23 had followed the counselor’s advice and focused on other things, instead of that number. Focusing on the SAT for even a few months led to him thinking of his own academic strength primarily in terms of that number, such as when looking at which schools would be a “good fit” for him academically. I don’t think his SAT helped or harmed him in college admissions, but I would rather have had him think of himself in other terms than a number.

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How I actually did spend my time when I was in high school a few decades ago involved about 15 minutes or less of test-prep for the SAT (doing the practice questions in the booklet with the sign-up sheet) and no prep for Achievement tests or AP tests beyond completing the associated high school course. The high school at the time sent about a third of its graduates directly to four year college (mostly state universities) plus some more to the local community college, so it was not what anyone here would consider “elite”.

I do not think I was an outlier in terms of amount of time spent on test-prep back then, although more test-prep was available and some students did do it. But it seems like if I were a high school student now aiming for selective colleges that included some test-required or test-optional ones (i.e. not all test-blind ones) now, I would be an extreme outlier in this respect.

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Beautifully said. And also - agree, it totally warps the way that kids judge whether a school is a good fit for them. “Yes, I’m in range” or “No, I’m not in range.”

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Exactly my experience. It was a different world then. Nobody I knew did test prep in my rural high school.

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Good thing my kids aren’t on CC as I’m going to confess to something that I’ve made my co-workers and high school friends swear to never reveal to my kids.

I went out the night before my second SAT attempt (I think it was a Homecoming game) and was still drunk (thought I’d be just hungover) the next morning when it was time to take the test. I still did better than my kid did and no worse than my first attempt or most of my friends Good enough to get me into any of the (somewhat competitive) colleges I was interested in.

Although I felt like I put in a lot of study time, I think I actually just went through the practice test book and took 2 practice tests.

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This is what I did as well, and my public high school was extremely competitive with almost a 100% going to four-year-college group with a large number of Top 20 schools. It just wasn’t a thing to prepare for the SAT back (1980s) then among even that group of Ivy+ bound students at my school. This changed fast in the five years after I graduated particularly once they started changing the tests to be more “achievement” and less “aptitude” based.

I don’t think you were an outlier then. As for now, at my son’s small private, I’d say spending from zero time on ACT prep to about 10-15 hours total on test prep at home would be the norm. I have only heard of one person who did a class or tutor, and he needed a bit higher score for an athletic situation, which is kind of different.

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I love this post. I have 2 kids one graduated in 21 and one senior this year. My oldest started out doing test prep junior year. She hated it, and we were relieved that she was able to apply TO. For my current senior, we did not even consider prepping for the tests. We, like you, thought that there were many better uses of time than learning how to take a test, just for the sake of a score.
Both my kids are strong students, both have AP scores (several 5’s) that they submitted. Both were very involved in the arts as well as community service, and had leadership experiences. No hooks, and we did apply for financial aid, and fall somewhere in the middle - we do not qualify based on FAFSA, but are eligible based on CSS. My oldest received a full tuition merit scholarship from Vanderbilt, where she just completed her second year, and LOVES it! My current senior will attend Pomona college, admitted RD - It was the top choice school - as an aside, we also decided against ED for our family, as we wanted to give our kids a chance to hear from all the options, and weigh out financial choices. Pomona was the first choice and we got a FA package that made it the second most affordable option (They got a full ride from WMU). We have zero regrets about skipping test prep. I agree that for some kids the score may strengthen the application, but that was not the case for us - so definitely not worth time and expense to prep!

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My two cents on tests:

I would add another subset of kids that tests can be useful for: those that attend a school that is untraditional in some way.

My kid goes to a Waldorf high school (I imagine AOs saying: what is this weird place? is it real school? How do I know…), and while he has terrific grades and takes Honors options in his classes, there are no APs or other universal benchmarks. He’d never taken a standardized test in his life until he took the PSAT, but he got a great score and didn’t hate it.

At that point, the SAT was (in my opinion) a useful tool for “confirming” his 3.97 GPA. He never took a prep class, but did a practice test once a month at the kitchen table. He submitted his 790RW/750M SAT as an indication that yes, his GPA was “valid.”

Do I think the AO spent more than 1 second looking at his test score? Nope. Do I think it got him admitted? Of course not. But coupled with his great recommendations, strong essay, and great GPA - it was another data point that confirmed he was doing strong work at his untraditional high school, and that probably helped in garnering some terrific merit money that we needed.

If I were to give advice to any families at this point I’d say to read up on some test taking strategies before the PSAT for about half an hour, and see how you do on the test. If you do well, check the SAT bands for your prospective schools and see if you’re at the 75% level. If you’re within nodding distance, do a little Khan Academy and take a practice test here and there before the SAT only do this if you have time. Everything else should come first: your classes, what you enjoy doing, your actual life should all come first.

If you don’t have a strong score on the PSAT, and you felt like it was awful and stressful, STOP. Don’t put any more energy into it. Pour yourself into the activities that you love to do and let it go.

TLDR: Are you a good test taker? Have time? Do a little Khan Academy and go for it. A strong score can be interpreted as a tiny certification of your GPA/rigor. Timed, standardized tests aren’t great for you? Then forget it and focus on doing well in school and go test optional and don’t sweat it.

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This is such a good thread — Class of ‘24, I hope you read it!

I spent so much of the 2021 admissions cycle hand-wringing about the fact that my S21 didn’t have a test score to submit. We had paid for a couple of months of group tutoring and he was ready to take the SAT on Saturday, March 14th 2020. Aaaaaaaaand the whole of California pretty much shut down the day before that. No test. He registered for (and had canceled) 5 SAT administrations between then and December (by then most of his applications were done and dusted). Never got to take it. We didn’t want to be those people who flew to another state to take the SAT, so we fretted and hoped that TO really meant TO. We knew it wouldn’t matter for UCs, but when he was waitlisted at some schools like Georgetown — a school that notoriously has cared about seeing ALL your scores — I did wonder. That said, we couldn’t have really afforded Georgetown or some of the other highly rejective schools he was waitlisted/denied from, so all was well that ended well at UCLA. Nonetheless, my advice to others at the time was to at least take the test! You might want to have it as an option.

Fast forward to his sister’s admissions journey two years later. We still had some credits with the test tutoring company, so we used those up by getting her a few crash course sessions for the Science and Math sections of the ACT (they had given her free practice tests to determine that she was probably suited to the ACT over the SAT). She knew better than I did at that point that the effort was probably a waste of time given that UCs and CSUs are test blind, and she wasn’t planning to apply to extra elite, expensive private schools. But she rolled her eyes, put in a little time, took the ACT once and aced the English and Reading sections but still wasn’t doing that much better on Math and Science. As her apply-to list was developing in parallel this time last year, it finally became clear to me that it was a waste of time, money, and energy to worry about getting a stronger ACT to submit.

At some schools her one score would actually have been at or above the 75th percentile but she still left it off. She moved on to focusing on preparing for AP tests, and I’m certain those scores are more reflective of her interest and aptitude as a student. She applied to 17 schools, 10 of which are test blind anyway, and she was admitted to 13 of them. The one rejection and two of her three waitlists were at public schools in-state that don’t consider the test. So I guess maybe a high score could have kept her off a waitlist at LMU? Maybe, maybe not. But she got offers in RD, including merit, from private schools that are much more selective than LMU.

My mind has shifted completely since my son applied, and unless you are applying heavily within the very tippy top bracket of schools or to a particular school like MIT that insists on a score, I think you can skip it and never look back. Focus on your grades and your activities. Spend the extra time to ace your AP exams. Don’t beat yourself up about either the ACT or SAT. These schools are figuring out how to admit without them!

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