10 Undergraduate Business Schools to Watch in 2019 - Emory University Goizueta

I copied the following from Poets & Quants for Undergrads

https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2019/01/29/10-undergraduate-business-schools-to-watch-in-2019/3/

Emory University, Goizueta Business School

There is good news and bad news.

The good news: If you get accepted into Emory University, you have an 80% shot of landing a spot in Goizueta Business School.

The bad news: Just 17% of applicants ever get into Emory – and the average SAT is 1470.

Those are tall odds, but Goizueta is worth it. It helps to think of Goizueta like an MBA program: it is a high touch, student-centric program. Look no further than P&Q’s 2018 alumni survey, where Goizueta ranked 5th for availability of faculty and among the top 10 business schools for academic advising, alumni contact, and overall alumni support. Thanks to a moderate 400 student class size, a class will develop a close-knit community. This is a dynamic that happens by design. To kick off the program, business majors are broken into teams during an off-site orientation. Here, they complete activities like rope courses and team challenges to build an esprit de corps. Later on, many class members will join an annual three day ski trip that further deepens their bonds.

“Falling down and laughing with friends can be transformative,” says Andrea Hershatter, the senior associate dean and director of the BBA Program. “The tone we would like to set is that we are interdependent, team-oriented, and there to support each other, which can sometimes get lost in the competitiveness of job search recruiting, or even just doing their best in classes.”

Alas, Goizueta is a bit of a throwback: a business school centered in a liberal arts university, par excellence. In fact, students can’t enter the business program until their junior years, though they can join all clubs and extracurricular activities long before then. The programming even includes unique concentrations tied to the liberal arts, including Film & Media Management and Art Management. For Hershatter, the liberal arts are foundational to the lessons and expectations inherent to the Goizueta experience.

“Our students start their college careers by thinking analytically and learning to express themselves effectively through their liberal arts education, and then the business school builds on it by creating multi-dimensional thinkers who are adept in problem-solving in our increasingly complex world.”

This gives Goizueta graduates certain inherent advantages when they enter the work world, adds Jane Hershman, who heads the business school’s career management center. “Our students have great critical thinking skills and they’re great presenters,” she tells P&Q in a 2018 interview. “We get that feedback a lot. They’re also strong writers because they have to be…We have a very collaborative culture. Our students are very good at understanding — even in an environment that’s supposed to be competitive — that you collaborate and help your classmates.”

That’s not the only advantage that business majors enjoy, either. The program is based smack dab in Atlanta, home to 15 Fortune 500 companies, including Coca-Cola, Home Depot, UPS, Delta Airlines, and Sun Trust. As a result, it isn’t hard to bring experts and projects into the classroom. Such riches translate into a 95% internship rate for the Class of 2018 (and an enviable $66,297 in average base pay), along with a top 5 ranking in return on investment.

Just don’t expect Goizueta to rest on its laurels. In recent years, the program has introduced a quantitative science (QSS) track, beefed up data analytics programming, and added Entrepreneurship and Health Innovation concentrations. That doesn’t even count a hackathon and co-working space for startup ventures. Most recently, the school has conducted an intensive curriculum review, where leadership is asking the tough questions and proposing the unimaginable. That means you’ll probably find Goizueta making headlines in the coming year.

“This is first time in a very long time faculty has spent an entire concrete effort tearing apart the curriculum,” says Hershatter.

The only thing I would add is that sophomores at Emory College may enroll at Goizueta Business School in the spring term of that sophomore year. This is considered “early admission”. I believe about 50% enter as sophomores and 50% enter fall semester of junior year. Those who are admitted early have 9-12 AP Credits. As you can see below, it is much tougher for Oxford students to enter early.

To be considered for admission, applicants from Emory College must have attained 60 hours (exclusive of PE, PACE, and Health) by the time of matriculation for regular admission, and 56 hours (exclusive of PE, PACE, and Health) by the time of matriculation for early admission (second semester of sophomore year). Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate credit hours count towards this total. Oxford College applicants must have completed their Associate of Arts by the time of enrollment.

Also, although students are not enrolled in GBS until later on, they may still take courses there earlier, if there are openings and pre-requisite courses are taken.

@ljberkow : Actually didn’t know it had a top 5 ROI. That should be marketed more aggressively. That may actually really matter to students and their families.

lol good marketing… as if!!!

Poets & Quants who does the annual rankings do a pretty good job on the analytics of business schools. Would love to see GBS get into the top 10 and of course, it’s close as it is. The trend is going more to where Emory and GBS already is, and that is combining outstanding liberal arts and developing critical thinking skills along with the academics and advisement of GBS. Looking forward to attending the 100th birthday celebration. In Boston, ours is tomorrow.

@ljberkow
GBS was top 10 at one point in time, Don’t know what happened but amoung employers it still has that reputation.

I think all they have to do is change the metrics and it will result in dramatic shifts. One ranking used to have the BBA as 2 or 3 when I attended, but then I think they changed to incorporate more things that would align with traditional metrics of prestige which might not match outcomes based metrics. I don’t remember, but it was dumb as GBS would be top 10 or higher in many categories that would be important output metrics today all the while not being focused on sending students to Wall Street (like the entry level salaries are not far from places that do like Wharton). Metrics may blend size, brand (so smaller size/student:faculty ratios may have an advantage), and admit rate (which would put a 2 year program that wants to admit all qualified students like GBS at a disadvantage. To me, them going to extremely stringent admissions to impress these publications is a waste if they are to stick to the ideals of the 2 year program. It would even hurt general interest in applying to Emory as students interested in the business school would incur a high risk of not being admitted). 2 or 3 may have been an inflation versus the metrics I speak of (which P&Q does a good job measuring), but top 10 would make sense.

I don’t think there is much a difference in any of the elite business schools. I believe Emory (GBS) is ranked #15 in both US News and P&Q. I have come around to the strategy that students are not admitted until second semester of sophomore year, at earliest, although I get how some schools do direct admits from HS as freshmen and begin business right away. I think the tide is turning in Emory’s favor as employers and students see the value in the mix between Emory College liberal arts and Goizueta. I believe GBS is worthy of a higher ranking because of Emory and GBS. Leadership looks out for and advises and even goes further than that.

Bernie’s points above are good. I believe that Indiana’s Kelley (ranked a little ahead of Emory) has more resources and should because Kelley has close to 7,000 undergrads. I also believe that it’s a backup school for kids who don’t get into Emory (as are others on the list). Emory also does not push or market investment banking positions on is students, but those jobs are out there if the students want them. Instead, GBS has a global focus and would rather turn out business leaders.

As for the 80% admission factor, the general sense is that GBS believes getting into Emory or Oxford is really the ultimate qualifier. The 20% are either struggling academically or are close but not involved. GBS likes the students who are doing more than passing through Emory and not involved in campus life or clubs (business clubs or other). I think there is one essay question for application which basically asks about involvement in the Emory community.

I know GBS is in a much better place than when I was there (when it was just the Rich Building) in both facilities and quality. It may have had a better ranking back then, but I love where they are now. I hope that kids who are being admitted now who are interested, do the business school session at admitted students days. You will see that even though you are not in GBS freshmen year that they know who you are, provide advisement to you from your first day at Emory, and that you’ll still take the courses at GBS your first year.

@ljberkow wrote: “I don’t think there is much a difference in any of the elite business schools.”

Maybe I misunderstand, but isn’t there is a significant difference with respect to job placement ?

I really don’t want to debate the “target schools” for investment banks or perhaps Wharton and a couple of others. @Publisher If you’re getting at that or perhaps lower starting salaries (which also might relate to a number of GBS working for southern companies which pay less because of lower cost of living), I don’t believe you will find much of a difference. If you look at the grid on GBS homepage, you will see geographic disbursement of jobs and my sense is that these target schools which are also in the northeast, will have the higher starting salaries.

If you want to be an investment banker and max out right after college, you would probably be better off at Wharton, Stern, Cornell, or some of the others. Yup, I wouldn’t challenge that. Not everyone is wired that way though.

I know folks think that specifically Wall Street Finance is the “it” job, but I’m just finding a hard time understanding prospective students’ obsession with it when there are many schools (UG business programs I mean), including Emory where the median salary is similar or better than places known to be better “targets” for WS. Clearly there are many lucrative careers to be accessed upon graduation, and in many different sectors and regions. I connect the obsession with the WS firms more so with a prestige obsession than actually being paid well. Graduates of good programs are getting paid well, full on target school or not.

In addition, big data may be the next place to go/get popular and at least ECAS and GBS are on that. Honestly glad Emory doesn’t have the WS craze many of the tippy top elite schools have. Apparently it can create a somewhat monotonous and toxic environment. Plus it is hard to tell if places are targets simply because of their proximity and past prestige and the fact that the firms (who are already full of those alumni) want those students or if it is because a ridiculous amount of students (mainly at schools with no UG business programs) are after them. I would expect that if super elite schools throw a milion darts at WS, that a ridiculous amount versus other schools (who may throw nowhere near a million) would land even if there was no special relationship or history with them. It is kind of like how many of the very top schools send out 100+ Fulbright applicants and then 20-30 actually get it each year. What do we say about schools with 2/3 to 1/2 the volume (admittedly, I do think level of interest “may” indicate the level of awareness and ambition of each student body for these scholarships, but Wall Street IB? It may be an over-rated signal even for those who want the prestige, and isn’t related to academic study/intellectual endeavors so I really shouldn’t compare) who fairly consistently get between 10-15? I mean, I don’t know. And in the case of WS, I am not willing to say “if your school isn’t completely gung-ho about just this one type of job, then students lack ambition relative to schools with more”.

@ljberkow : Unfortunately, it isn’t about how far schools have come versus the past (or really even other schools) and more so about how well they showcased it to these various outlets (including people) in addition to some key areas of productivity. Places that are loud and flashy will usually gain popularity and prestige fast (especially if already well-ranked) regardless of how far the programs have actually moved versus others. We are talking business schools, so we may as well admit that marketing and messaging plays a role in their visibility no matter the actual quality. And with the WS craze, no doubt being labelled a “target” (great buzzword that annoys me if you can’t tell, especially when folks get on CC and their first question is: “Is such and such elite school a target for very specific firms?” As if being present at the schools will just automatically grant access to them. As if the competition and the backgrounds of students at said target schools is not something to consider. Maybe most of the Sallys and Johns at some of the “target” schools were already highly connected to these firms in some way or come from families that would allow for easier access? People refuse to think big picture or about nuance) matters unfortunately no matter how that status was obtained. Either way, looks like James is trying to help GBS “make some noise” and is pretty serious about the messaging and communications aspect. More importantly, she seems aggressive about getting more people (especially alumni) engaged in uplifting the school.

@Publisher : The placement? I don’t think so. Not between the elites I don’t think. I think it does drop off after the more elite group of business schools though. The placement % and even salaries in most cases seem similar. Now WHERE (the distribution of sectors and regions) exactly students place (the target thing) results in differences in prestige. Again, many go in envisioning WS IB as the only worthy outcome of a business degree.

Although this thread is focused on Emory’s GBS undergraduate program, I find it noteworthy that Emory’s MBA program had the fourth (4th) highest percentage of “graduates employed at graduation” among 127 MBA programs ranked by US News.

@Publisher : I think P&Q wrote about that years ago. They changed the MBA program in some key ways to make that happen. I believe one component was moving the classes earlier and integrating certain courses in that period that expedite readiness for recruitment. But yeah, they just made changes. It wasn’t a miracle, luck, or prestige.

Emory BBA Senior here–feel free to ask me anything

@Benjamin243
Where did you intern over the summer?

with a public defender lol, i actually want to be a lawyer (like one of three kids in the whole bba program lol). previous i worked at home depot corporate in atlanta (super fun internship) and management consulting internship during a study abroad thing

@Benjamin243: wrote: “with a public defender lol”

Public defenders get more trials & court appearances than any legal practitioner except for assistant district attorneys. In most jurisdictions it is quite difficult to get a position as a public defender due to the overwhelmingly high number of applicants combined with a requirement of heavy demonstrated interest. Grades & law review are not as important except for Federal Public Defenders.

Your “lol” suggests that you didn’t get much out of this internship.

Ben243, HS Junior child interested in GBS. What criteria used to accept/reject acceptance into GBS for junior year.

GBS has an 85% acceptance rate. I’ve heard solid B’s will get you accepted. It’s pretty rare form what I gather to get rejected.