Hi! Our 10th grader has a 33 ACT and GPA currently 3.6 UW (4.0 W) with two AP classes this year. She pretty much epitomizes bright but no work ethic. She is selecting courses for next year and choosing a bunch of AP and IB classes. Do we try to intervene and get her to take less challenging classes to get better grades? Try to some how force her to develop a work ethic in real time? (Haha) ? She talks about dream/stretch schools like Penn or Columbia but also says she’d love BU or Northeastern. Also considering UC San Diego. Bio or Biomed major. Thoughts? Thank you!!
Hi. I think your daughter is bright and has a work ethic. A 3.6 GPA is nothing to sneeze at. She will get into good colleges with those stats. If she wants to take AP and IB classes, I think that’s great.
I don’t see your problem here. This student has a goal, has a variety of colleges to think about (which could change in the next two years) and is taking a challenging coirseload.
It sounds like you want her to get all As. Let that go! She is doing great.
If the problem really is her work ethic, having her take easier classes won’t solve the problem. She’ll just work less hard in easier classes.
Work ethic is something she must deal with herself. The top schools want to see students challenge themselves AND get high grades.
My son was the same way. He was getting B’s in classes where the teacher would ask him to help tutor other students and they would get A’s. Go figure. What did seem to light a small fire under him was when I told him that the higher his GPA the more he got to choose where he went to college rather than having the schools dictate his choice.
He did OK in the end going to CalPolySLO.
The bottom line is it’s HER worth ethic and something that’s totally within her control. She - or you - is looking at pretty top tier schools so as long as she realizes what it’s going to take to get there, it’s on her. In my experience nagging won’t help. You have to walk a fine line between making sure she understands what it takes to get into these schools and how competitive it is with making her think she doesn’t have a chance. And don’t forget to paint the picture to include not just academics but EC’s, preferably things she enjoys. Easier schedule will just encourage her to think she can get through classes without working too hard. But there is definitely such a thing as having TOO hard a schedule. Again, a fine line…
From what I see of my son and his HS friends in college, it takes more than just sheer intelligence to make it. The students who seemed to adjust most quickly to the academic rigor in college were the ones who had developed a really good worth ethic in HS. My son wasn’t in that category unfortunately, and had to develop that ethic more in college - and his grades showed it. He’s fine in the end and will graduate this year but it could have been easier. and his GPA could be higher… :). But he’s already accepted a good job so in the end it’s all good. And it will be for her too
Gifted kids often get bored and don’t do the work (making an assumption about her with the high ACT as a sophomore). She needs to be challenged. It is very likely taking “easier” classes will be worse than letting her challenge herself with the courses she has chosen. Improving grades matter and the last year seen by admissions committees is junior year. Be sure to tell her next year counts the most- a great gpa will offset her current one. She may well be motivated to prove to you she can handle the heavier course load and be stimulated by the classes.
Sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders. Your job is to be supportive of her taking classes in line with her abilities. She may need a reminder now and then that all work needs to be done, even if she does know the material and can ace tests. She wants to get into her choice of colleges and needs the best gpa she is capable of. I suspect she’ll rise to the challenge. Do NOT hold her back!
PS- I have a gifted son- he finally told us how boring the most rigorous (many AP classes) HS curriculum was long after he was in (or even out of) college. His senior grades were, hmmm… but he did the work he wanted to in honors in a good college. Your D needs to own her education- let her.
At S’s school the current teachers have input on the next year’s schedule, is this the case for your D? If so, do her teachers recommend a rigorous courseload with lots of AP/IB classes? If she hasn’t already, she should ask a trusted teacher or counselor for advice about taking many high-level classes at once.
Thank you for all the replies:-) We had her tested when she was younger and she does have a high IQ. She does next to no actual work - rarely has homework, just quickly does it between classes and doesn’t sit down to actually study. It is painful for me because with her natural raw intelligence she has a lot of potential. It’s hard to watch. I don’t want her to wind up with an ever-growing gap between grades and ACT that would raise an eyebrow for admissions. At the end of the day though she’s going to have to figure these things out on her own.
My older daughter had a 34 ACT and a 3.4 or so GPA by the time she graduated from high school. She got into several colleges, she graduated from college, and she is doing fine. As will your daughter, I think.
I feel your pain, my oldest had very similar stats. Here’s the thing about telling a smart, bored kid to take easy classes: their grades may remain flat or decline. We decided to let him challenge himself.
In the end he was disappointed with his college outcome but it turned out to be a great life lesson. He improved his work ethic and will be graduating from u mich with honors next month.
My son graduated from high school with a 3.5 unweighted (4.0 weighted) GPA. He went on to graduate with honors from our state university and earn a master’s degree in his field. He turns 31 this week, and he is one of those lucky people who truly likes what he does for a living. Seems like a pretty good outcome to me.
My very similar son who took a mix of AP, honors, and college prep (in english and history) got into fine schools, but was not a candidate for Penn or Columbia and did not get into Northeastern. He went back and forth on honors and advanced in math, getting As in advanced and Bs in honors. He understood the material, but did not want to do enough work to practice so he could ace the tests. He challenged himself with his schedule, which the GC noted to us and I assume did in her recommendation.
She will get into a good school, but if you are looking for merit money it will be hard to find at schools near BU or NEU in the rankings. She may find it tough to develop the study skills needed at a tip top college, or she may mature enough to do well. She may continue to do just enough to get keep a B+ average in college.
As others have said, it is up to her how hard she wants to work and where she wants to go to school.
It can be frustrating to see a kid with high IQ potential not show it in GPA. It can be irritating to know that such a kid, with more drive, could be a candidate for a top school or scholarship and for merit money at many schools. But the kid is the entire package - personality with IQ. There can be a lot of negative judgement about kids who are very smart, but not driven by getting top grades and who are considered to not “work hard”. Certainly, having a smart, hard working student is great, but the smart, more laid back kids generally are quite successful as well.
My DD could be the poster child for bright but no work ethic. Her GC and I had a very long talk with her about the work involved in AP World History, but DD still insists on taking it next year. She says that she would rather take a work-loaded class that interests her rather than take an easier class that bores her.
“Thank you for all the replies:-) We had her tested when she was younger and she does have a high IQ. She does next to no actual work - rarely has homework, just quickly does it between classes and doesn’t sit down to actually study.”
This sounds familiar. This is likely to change when she finds herself taking classes that she wants to take, and has a motivation to do well. By the way, taking less challenging classes might NOT be the way to motivate her. I have seen cases where very smart kids actually get better grades when they take harder classes, because the harder class wakes them up, interests them, and lets their talent come through.
“It is painful for me because with her natural raw intelligence she has a lot of potential. It’s hard to watch.”
I have seen many kids with similar issues (including myself and a sibling) who turned it around rather dramatically when we found ourselves motivated to do so.
"At the end of the day though she’s going to have to figure these things out on her own. "
Exactly. From what little you can post on a forum such as this, it sounds like she will. It might happen quickly, or might take a few years. You can help, you can encourage, you can listen, but in the end she has to find the reason to do the work. Listening might be particularly important in this case, because for her to get motivated she probably needs to be doing what she wants to do. One advantage of taking a few hard classes while in high school (rather than waiting for university) is that you will be there for example if she needs help on study skills. Some very smart people have trouble with study skills because they never needed them (until… suddenly they did).
The ability to work hard and continuously is a talent, just like an IQ over 150 is a talent. Some people have one set of talents, some have a different set. Very often very smart people have to take a break from time to time, and find their own pace.
Having an unweighted GPA of 3.6 might keep her out of Harvard and Stanford for undergrad but that is okay – she doesn’t need to go to Harvard or Stanford to do very well.
I took all IB classes throughout hs and ended up with 3.5 and 32 and got into U Richmond, VCU, U South Carolina and Northeastern and got waitlisted at a bunch of others, Don’t loose hope either but stay realistic!
All the potential in the world does not matter unless one uses it. To succeed one needs to know how to study/get the work done. And teens are not good at listening to we parents!
I can add- kid gets B’s in AP stats due to zeroes on homework and 100% on all tests, A’s in AP calc because they didn’t require the homework to be handed in/graded. 5’s on AP exams. Then there was AP Chemistry (my undergrad major). Kid did not like the way the teacher taught (liked the teacher well enough)- he got a 5 on the AP exam given in May while getting a C when the course ended in June. All this as a senior. He dissed slackers the year before. Was young (16)- holding him back with agemates not a viable option when he went ahead in young years- I wonder if he would have gotten as far as he did in K-12th grades… dropped out perhaps???
Years later- hindsight et al gained by son. Your D is doing the right thing to keep herself intellectually stimulated instead of going for theoretically easy A’s. Colleges look at the rigor of the curriculum, relative to the one offered so students are not penalized for lesser options. This is your D’s idea- support her!
It was good to hear about other parents’ experiences. Kids can be so frustrating, especially when they can be so smart but so unable to see the future consequences of their actions. And stubborn…
He still knows it all but at least is happy with what he is doing and intellectually stimulated by it. Took some doing to get over our desire for more formal education but we are realizing there is no need to prove anything with a tippy top elite college/PhD in our son’s resume.