<p>Okay - our D1 now has two acceptances radically different and both equally appealing to her - Yale and Caltech. She loves science, does well in math but doesn't live for math, is a truly gifted writer, and "gets" literature, history, economics, all the social sciences. What is the best way to help a kid like this figure out their best "fit" and direction? She wants to be able to earn a good living, have a real life with babies and down time, but use her abilities. We are just clueless as parents on how to help her with this and are anticipating yet more college options in the near future which will further complicate matters. Do those hired counselors who give kids tests and then tell them what to do with their lives really help? She is the quintessential well-rounded scholar - honestly likes it all. Even says second year calculus is fun whereas prior years math was just rote for her. Also says her two favorite classes were AP Chem and AP World History. </p>
<p>Caltech is best for true science/math students who are devoted to studying and want to do research. It is weak in the social sciences. And the level of work is known to be gruelling. It is not nearly as ideal is as Yale for the well rounded scholar, especially if she wants to be around students who are not into just math/ science 24/7. Caltech is very small in comparison to Yale as well. Unless she considers herself a "techy", she she go to Yale. A son's friend who is an absolute math genius decided to go to Stanford, instead of Caltech, because he wanted to be around a wider variety of students ,and have the opportunity to take a wider range of classes than available at CT. And congratulations !</p>
<p>Not sure exactly why this jumped out at me as I don't qualify for the "wise one" category! Of course you know she has plenty of time to make firm decisions. My sense is that she can succeed in whatever she chooses. Encourage her to explore a varied course load at a LAC, maybe an undeclared major at first. If she has a 'first love', explore it a bit more throroughly. A career in higher education makes for a wonderful life, with time for research and time for sharing one's gifts/interests in certain subjects. The field of education is great for women, in particular, because it often acknowledges (even encourages!) family commitment. From your description, I see a college professor who would truly engage her students in whichever field she chooses. I'm convinced being 'well-rounded' can be a curse as it is often very frustrating for 'well-rounded' kids to home in on a first love. Good Luck.</p>
<p>Oh boy, no I'm certainly not a wise one ( and I know these are not the only two amazing schools she was already accepted to...) Yes, the next few weeks will definitely complicate things for you guys....</p>
<p>IMO, Yale just seems like a more well rounded program...No idea if it's necessarily a "fit" for her; that would be decided on a visit....</p>
<p>My d is nowhere near the level of your daughter, but is also an all around kind of kid...it's all going to come down to her gut feel in this...I'm almost hoping that she doesn't have too many choices.....very difficult....</p>
<p>Definitely Yale, or another school where she can be around students involved in all different fields. She will find her focus and direction through the four years there, as she develops and grows. Caltech is intense and wonderful if you are a techy- but it sounds too focused and narrow for your daughter.</p>
<p>Mammall: Honestly, why worry? Your daughter is clearly an impressive kid, with a lot of achievements that translate very well in the admissions process. How about trusting her to find her way? Whether she goes to Yale, Caltech, Stanford, Harvard, wherever, she will find a challenging, stimulating academic environment with more opportunities than she could use in 100 lifetimes. She'll pick the ones she wants to pursue, and let the other ones pass by (with lots of regret, probably). She'll work out her life balance the way all of us have, by trial and error. </p>
<p>Yale is practically perfect in every way as far as I am concerned, but it doesn't hand every brilliant woman who walks through Phelps Gate a manual that guarantees success on these issues. I'm pretty sure Caltech doesn't either.</p>
<p>Also no claim to wisdom, but it seems like Yale would be a better choice. So many kids end up changing majors in school. For a student who has such well-rounded interests, a school with more well-rounded offerings seems like a better fit. A year from now she may be wishing she could major in history. Does she have spring break coming up? Perhaps visiting both while school is in session, and there aren't the planned admitted students days' activities going on, would give her a better feel for what is the best fit.</p>
<p>Yale is pretty hard to beat for a great general education! Caltech is a terrific school, but it will offer more limited options. Wow, proud family!</p>
<p>Okay, feeling appropriately silly now. Of course she will make this decision herself in the end. Just wondering if those counselors that claim to help kids work this out really help. We are planning quite a lot of travel over spring break.</p>
<p>rutgersmama - I think you're right. I think she will be an educator, probably at the college level. And I agree it is a wonderful career, especially for women who want a family.</p>
<p>Sounds like your daughter is definitely a better fit for Yale. As someone who had to choose between Princeton and Caltech, the lack of strong and broad social sciences/humanities was a large part of what turned me off. It was such a strong factor that, despite my otherwise good fit for Caltech (enjoy sciences and math, and loved the quirky atmosphere), I decided not to attend. Your mileage may vary, but in my opinion those best suited to Caltech know that they're best suited to Caltech.</p>
<p>If she's really unsure, get her to attend Caltech's prefrosh weekend (if that's an option financially, of course) - it'll really give a good indication yes or no as to whether or not she's a good enough fit for the Caltech environment to override the other ways she clearly doesn't fit (in terms of the social sciences stuff and so forth).</p>
<p>Honestly, she sounds like a better fit for Yale, but she should visit both places if she can. Caltech is truly a unique school - it's not for everyone. I loved the seriousness of the honor code (all take home exams, everyone has keys to everywhere on campus). My kids loved the traditions of pranks and the nerdy culture - even my non-science kid. Some people find the dining hall antics sophomoric, others love the culture. It's very, very geeky. A girl from our high school is there - she's happy, but was feeling pretty overwhelmed by the beginning physics course. It's often described like drinking from a firehose. You definitely have to be committed to science, though I knew one person when my husband was a grad student there who ended up majoring in English with plans to write about science. Caltech has a beautiful campus, and I loved living in southern California for a few years.</p>
<p>Pasadena vs Hartford? My son would consider that part of it the deal maker/breaker. He'd head for Pasadena... </p>
<p>Yes, CalTech is pretty geeky, but anyone who thinks second year calculus is fun should be just fine there; CalTech is not known for accepting students who won't succeed there.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I'd agree with those who thinking visiting is a good idea. What a great problem to have, too! </p>
<p>If visiting isn't a possibility, flipping a coin and listening to your inner voice about the coin flip ("***, I hoped it'd be the other way" or "whew, that was what I wanted") is often pretty successful.</p>
<p>I don't have any experience with the counselors who tell you where you will fit in. But, I wouldn't believe them, anyway.</p>
<p>Sounds like you will be going coast to coast for spring break- Enjoy! And do eat in the dining halls, encourage daughter to talk to as many students and profs as possible, etc. Ask the admissions people for stats on what most students do AFTER college graduation. I'm thinking that most grads of Caltech go more into the research field, but that might be an assumption on the small number of graduates I know from there.</p>
<p>Interesting question. I am participating in a leadership development program at work, and had to take various surveys and am working with a "coach" to identify my leadership strengths and weaknesses. Part of this process is going through a survey called the Birkman Method -- it helps a person understand work styles, interests, and good career fits. Google it and see if it sounds like what you're thinking of. My "coach" mentioned to me about someone he knows who does this type of counseling with high school seniors at cost since he has retired. Anyway, I think it's intriguing, and I certainly found it valuable and on-target.</p>
<p>I just found this website about various on-line testing resources in this area: WetFeet.com</a> ></p>
<p>Assuming you're visiting both over spring break, I think the decision will be easier than you think. Both have significant "auras" about them, and since they are both great schools, she should go to the one that feels more right to her. At this point of the process, it really becomes a question of "are these my people?" Good luck! (btw, where do you live? Is that any consideration?)</p>
<p>Ah, you emptied your mailbox! Just PM'd you...</p>
<p>DS visited Caltech this fall and sat in on a philosophy class, as he wanted to see what the humanities are like there. He pronounced it "too mathy." Coming from him, that was a stunner. Caltech has five quarters of physics...and it starts with a co-requisite of MV/DiffEq. That part doesn't scare him -- it was, as he put it, the "humanities as an afterthought" that bothered him.</p>
<p>I don't know that a counselor is going to be able to help your D much between now and the end of April -- it's going to be a matter of her listening to her heart and seeing where she fits. The career path will come as she heads into her major and decided what she wants from there. Right now, I think it's about trying on different experiences and ideas to see what clicks. </p>
<p>And gee, Yale and Caltech are about as different as they come!</p>
<p>By the way, my kids are still talking about how yummy the pizza was at our lunch at Chandler Dining Hall at Caltech, and I had a grilled salmon that was cooked perfectly to order. You won't get that at Yale. (I don't believe Caltech dinners are as good though.)</p>
<p>Wait. Mathmom, you do know that New Haven has great pizza, don't you? ;)</p>
<p>Such diverse options! She really has to visit before she can choose. If she does love the humanities as well as the sciences, and isn't sure in which direction she will eventually choose, I'd try to steer her to the one that has the broadest curriculum and widest range of courses where she could explore her interests. That would be Yale.</p>
<p>I must confess my DD graduated from Yale last year--gifted writer, science lover, ended up in the social sciences. I also think that New Haven is a much better college town than Pasadena. Cars are not necessary as they are in Los Angeles (my home). Yale students have so many extracurricular options and meet diverse students with an amazing range of talents. Caltech excels in what they do, but if you are not fairly certain you want a hard science education, Yale would be a much safer choice.</p>
<p>It seemed to me cars were less necessary in Pasadena than they were 20 years ago when I lived there. Lake Avenue shopping is an easy walk from the Caltech campus. But I agree LA is a lot more fun with a car - especially if you want to take advantage of the beach, the mountains and the desert parks and the great museums. (Which we did.)</p>
<p>I agree Yale, sounds like a more likely fit, but there has to be some reason this student applied to Caltech.</p>
<p>Somewhere I had gotten the impression that mammall's daughter had been accepted at Stanford, too. That's sort of an interesting compromise between Cal Tech and Yale -- like Yale, an excellent full service university that is world-class in many disciplines with a diverse student body that's large enough to support lots of different communities, but somewhat more math/science oriented than Yale and, like Cal Tech, on a lovely suburban California campus. (Not a point in its favor, in my book, but I recognize that many others would disagree.) And, at Stanford, when you take the train to go somewhere, you end up in San Francisco, not L.A., which is a huge advantage. (Let's not even talk about New Haven.)</p>
<p>Not that it will make any difference, but I would encourage you NOT to visit. The differences between Yale and Cal Tech are massive, as everyone says. Visiting will muddy the waters, and will give mother and daughter a zillion vivid, random impressions of specific students (and specific dining hall meals) that will NOT really give a sense of what it would be like to be a student there. Neither would be a bad choice at all, and whichever one she goes to, she will discover over a relatively short period of time what she likes best and what she wants to avoid, how she wants to live there. The strengths of each university will entice her in directions she wouldn't have gone at the other. The students who are there generally love both. Surely it doesn't take a visit to decide whether she wants a largish, comprehensive, East Coast, urban, humanities-strong university where 25% or more of the undergraduates are involved with music or drama, or an intimate, intense, elitist tech college in suburban southern California.</p>
<p>Oh, but if you do visit Yale, by all means eat a pizza at Pepe's on Wooster St. The pizza index is going to favor Yale all the way, even if you have to go half a mile to get it. (And if you think the Cal Tech cafeteria pizza is an adequate substitute . . . that's where you belong.)</p>