120 point Math drop

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello, this is my first post here, although I have been reading others posts for quite some time. Up until now, I've been fairly calm about the college application process, but today my daughter's SAT scores came in with her math decreasing from 730 to 610. As her math SAT subject tests have been 5's, and her PSAT's math score was in the 70's, and my daughter said that she had no particular problem with the test, I am thinking of having the SAT people do a check. My daughter is very upset with this score. I realize that I will have to pay for it.</p>

<p>Does anyone know how to go about doing this? I've looked on the College Board site and no where can I find anything about having them re-check the scores. Have they done away with this after last Octobers test scoring fiasco? I'm afraid I don't follow all of this that closely to know what to do.</p>

<p>Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can answer.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/sending/handscore.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/sending/handscore.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Thank you very much. That was really fast!</p>

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<p>My daughter's SAT scores also dropped the second time around. This was a few years ago. Both math and verbal, though not by 120 points. It's worth checking. She did feel the test given the second time was more difficult.
BUT -- the colleges just take the highest score, so go with the first test.</p>

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<p>It is this kind of unexpected drop and the results of re-scores that gave the College Board the first inkling that there was trouble with the scoring of some of last year's tests. Let us know how things worked out.</p>

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<p>The kids on the SAT Prep thread are all talking about how their scores on the Writing section of the Oct. test were extremely low compared to either previous tests or practice tests. There's some buzz (maybe just wishful thinking) over there about possible scoring errors. Several kids are talking about requesting hand-scoring. </p>

<p>It wouldn't surprise me if there was a scoring problem with the Oct. test. My S's scores went down in CR and W, and he was expecting at least a 40 point increase based on the improvement in his ACT score the month before.</p>

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<p>My daughter also had a big drop in her October SAT's. She was especially surprised at her Math score. She thought it was easy but dropped 40 points from her first time.</p>

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<p>Not everyone's October scores declined. Mine went up.</p>

<p>
[quote]

I almost did not take the SAT's a second time. When you get your results they also tell you the percentage of people who took the exam again with your scores and the percentages of people diong better or worse.</p>

<p>On my first time they predicted if I took all sections again there would be a greater likelyhood of doing worse than better. So I did not request my scores (2nd time) be sent to any schools. But my results are in and I did better.</p>

<p>Oct 05 Oct 06 Change
Verbal..........740..........800......+60
Math............720..........700......-20
Writing.........690..........800....+110
Total...........2150.......2300.....+150</p>

<p>I'm sending the new scores.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>^^^ hssenior - Good job - definiteley a keeper.</p>

<p>Maybe since your math score went down a bit on this one despite doing a stellar job, it really was a more difficult test.</p>

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<p>Perhaps it was a more difficult test or perhaps her math brain was not on that day, but 120 points is a significant drop. Both her writing and verbal went up. As I pointed out before (but with an error—the AP’s were 5’s, not the previous SATS. Previous SATI math and SATII math came in at 730, PSAT math 73) her October math score was seriously out of wack with all standardized tests taken previously. As many have kindly mentioned, most of the schools take the best scores. We have yet to figure out if this is so with all her hopefuls. It should not be a worry, but as you know, this is the season for worry. This score took a very good record and added doubt to it. We also are concerned a bit how it might affect people looking between two very close candidates for scholarships or merit aid. Mostly, though, keeping things in perspective, we are curious about how this drastic a drop can be. </p>

<p>And congrats to the person who got the 800's. You must be very pleased.</p>

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<p>120 points is a very drastic drop since the math portion is rather consistent test to test; if it were me, I'd pay for handscoring. Perhaps your D missed a bubble somewhere, and ended up with a string of incorrect bubbles.</p>

<p>40 points is almost statistical noise, but one variance could be the number of Alg II problems on each test version. Some test administrations may have as few as 3 Alg II problems, some four and some five.</p>

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<p>I ordered the hand scoring yesterday and will let the group know when we receive them. The man on the phone did warn me that the results could go down! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that the people who had asked for hand scoring for last year's October test were initially told that the machine scored results had been correct. It was only later that the information came out about all the tests that had been incorrectly assessed, after the schools had already completed their admissions processes.</p>

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<p>I'm also VERY interested in what happens here. How long does it take to hand score? My d. just checked her SAT scores today. Her V & M score dropped 150 points!!!! She was disappointed in her math, but not totally surprised. However, her verbal score dropped nearly 100 points alone. And that's her strong area! </p>

<p>She did well on both the ACT and SAT, winter of her Junior year. Just a few more points, and she would qualify for several merit scholarships. We encouraged her to retake this year, saying "no harm". If she does better, great. If she doesn't, no big loss. She was not thrilled, but agreed. </p>

<p>Was it a bad day? Not particularly. She wasn't sick, or distracted (to my knowledge). She thought the math was harder, but said nothing about the verbal. She had almost a full year of extra experience under her belt. She reviewed her hardest sections. What happened? Now I feel terrible. We encouraged her to try a second time, and it backfired. Were the first scores an anomaly? I somehow doubt that, since both her ACT and SAT were virtually equal, and the scores are consistant with her school performance.</p>

<p>I realize she can send in only the original ACT score, and forgo the SAT -- but not completely. Two of her schools require the SAT II scores. When that file is sent, so too will the second batch of SAT I scores. Her first set of scores put her in the middle range of a few of her stretch schools. Her second set of scores will probably shoot that possibilty entirely.</p>

<p>Yes, I know colleges say they take the highest score. But, I can't help think of a jury who has just been instructed to strike a comment from the record. Impossible to strike from memory once it is stated! How will colleges regard such a drop? I know it is fine if the scores increase that amount between the first and second sitting -- but I have not heard of too many students who have such a reverse drop. Personally, if I were on an admissions committee, I would be concerned -- just as I would be for a significant drop in grades. </p>

<p>I've kept the duct tape handy, and have tried to downplay the drop, and remind her that her first scores are still quite good. But it makes us all nervous. Any suggestions, advice or just consolations?</p>

<p>p.s. She's now sweating the second set of ACT scores just recently taken. She came home that day shocked at the difficulty of the math section. She practiced, and was doing quite well on the practice tests, so if anything, she felt more confident going into the test. What annoyed her even more, was that other friends in her class felt the math portion was a breeze. These are students with equal or even lower performance in her same math classes at school, so she knows it is not due to a difference in teaching or material. Are different students given different tests on the same day? Could there be that much of a difference in the difficulty level between two tests taken the same time?</p>

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<p>My perception is that someone who receives the applications summarizes the numerical information so that the admissions folks can easily refer to it and compare applicants. The highest scores are put on the summary.</p>

<p>Of course colleges probably vary in this, but I don't think you should be so worried. The book, The Gatekeepers, published a few years ago, gives a good description of the process and that might help allay your fears.</p>

<p>Those highest scores, then, go into the college's statistics, so they really don't mess with the lower ones. And I don't think you should view it as you would a drop in grades.</p>

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<p>The man on the phone at College Board said that the hand scoring process would take from three to five weeks. I, too, had encouraged my daughter to re-take the test as her verbal had been better on her PSATS then her first SAT. She raised her verbal significantly this second time around, but I think we would have been better off leaving well enough alone!</p>

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<p>Maybe these errors are contained in a single geographic area. Check to see where you guys are from and if there is a correlation between mistakes and drastic drops.</p>

<p>I am from Southern Cali and I got exactly what I expected.</p>

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<p>I absolutely believe that there was some kind of scoring problem on the October test. There's just too much anecdotal evidence here on CC for it to be completely random. There are always posts after each test administration where some students moan and complain about their retake scores, but never to the extent seen this time. After the fiasco last year, I don't think anyone can be complacent enough to chalk it up to chance.</p>

<p>I don't know what good it will do, but I went on to the collegeboard.com website, clicked Contact Us, and sent an e-mail to them regarding my concerns. It will probably be ignored, but if they get an unusual number of requests for hand scoring or the Q&A Service, as well as e-mails from students and parents affected by the score drop, perhaps they will initiate some kind of investigation. </p>

<p>I hope those of you that feel there may have been a mistake will send an email to the College Board voicing your concerns. It can't hurt. Here is the link:
<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/about/contact.html?region=NYO%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/about/contact.html?region=NYO&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Commenting re: what colleges look at. At one school they had told us that a form was attached to the front of the file, which a secretary filled out with the highest scores. That was what was used by the committee. My oldest had bronchitis with a 103+ fever on his first testing (which we didn't know until he came home -- and I knew nothing about cancelling scores, etc). His score second time around was 160 points higher. He did get into all his schools - including two Ivies, and he never explained the lower score, so I have to believe it wasn't even considered.</p>

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<p>My son was surprised when he got his scores as well. He felt he had done better on the math this time around but had a drop in score. First round 710 this time 690. Is this just the difference in one or two questions?
His verbal score went up 40 points. The writing was almost exactly the same. Essay the same score and he had 1 more correct writing question this time for a 10 point increase.
All in all in spite of the math score he felt pretty good.</p>

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<p>mom60:</p>

<p>statistically, a 690=710; a 710 is +/- 30 points or, a range of 680-740. </p>

<p>But, it could be the difference of one question, or just a different test administration and its score equating -- the number of Alg II problems varies by test adminsitration. Last year in the math: miss one = 770, miss two = 740/750; miss three = 720....</p>