2007 USNEWS Rankings!

College Search & Selection
561

<p>
[quote]
But I think the groupings reflect how people who are aware of colleges and their undergrad offerings would recommend them to other people. In other words, all the colleges in each grouping would be ROUGHLY equal in attractiveness to candidates. You wouldn't be questioned for choosing Columbia over Harvard, for example.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, it depends on by whom you're being questioned. Berkeley, Hopkins, UVA generally lose to schools they're listed with in cross-admit competition. Coming from Virginia, I know that UVA and W&M can't be separated by that much.</p>

562

<p>Tourguide, I disagree. I would put Dartmouth in the first tier and move Columbia to the third tier. I would also move Berkeley, Penn and Duke down one tier and move Cornell up one tier.</p>

563

<p>Aurelius, thanks for the feedback. I'm sure that's right re UVa and WandM IN STATE. Nationally might be a different story.</p>

<p>Remember, these groupings aren't based solely on academics, selectivity, research, Rhodes Scholars or any one criterion. They are based on a general perception of "attractiveness" in the broadest sense (with tuition cost excluded because that can be irrelevant given the state of financial aid these days, and sports excellence excluded becaues a significant # of people don't give a hoot about sports--though I don't see how the fame DERIVED from sports could be excluded). Here's an example: You are a high school senior. You are sitting at dinner with your Uncle Kenneth, who went to X college. He hires people in multiple fields, and is generally aware of the college scene, though he didn't cancel his 2 PM appointment to run down to Borders to get the new US News rankings last week. He asks you where you're going next year. You say Y college.</p>

<p>If the groupings are accurate, and the college you are going to is in a HIGHER grouping than X college, he'd likely say "Oh, excellent choice. We're all very proud of you" and go back to his mashed potatoes.</p>

<p>If the college you're going to is in the SAME group as his, he'd likely say something like, "Oh, good school. Would have liked to have seen you go to X school, but Y is fine."</p>

<p>If the college you're going to is in a grouping BELOW X college he'd likely say something like, "Let me make a few calls. I think I can pull a few strings help you get into X college."</p>

<p>I'm sure people will pick apart my groupings in post #560, but at least this method softens the ridiculousness of thinking that colleges can be ranked so precisely that #15 is obviously better than #16. And yeah, I know it depends on your major, etc. Let's just assume you're undecided.</p>

564

<p>Wake Forest is a much better school than Penn State or Illinois.</p>

565

<p>It ain't about which is a better school. Re-read post #564.</p>

566

<p>HYPSM - tier 1
Columbia, Duke, Dartmouth, Brown, Chicago, Penn - tier 2
Other contenders at the top are Cornell and NU</p>

<p>This is for undergrad, and PosterX, this type of ranking is supported by lots of data - % NMS, Rhodes scholars, how well they feed into top professional schools, average SAT scores, etc. etc. etc.</p>

<p>For undergrad education, the above is under little dispute, if anything, I'd look at the_prestige's combined ranking for the most useful</p>

567

<p>It's really hard to do the tier thing, unless you use confidence intervals (as I suggested in a previous post) based on a statistical formula, e.g., 80% likelihood of tier 1, 20% likelihood of tier 2, etc. The only schools that are, without any doubt, in the top tier are HYP. The others you can bicker about for no end.</p>

568

<p>If we are talking about "prestige" then Harvard is in the top tier all by itself, wouldn't you agree, TROLLSTER?</p>

<p>See: "For Harvard, Luring Students Is All in the Brand"</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=509886%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=509886&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I agree with you that "the others you can bicker about for no end."</p>

569

<p>“If the college you're going to is in a grouping BELOW X college he'd likely say something like, "Let me make a few calls. I think I can pull a few strings help you get into X college."”</p>

<p>-Yeah, my parents are always telling me how much they want me at Berkeley….. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>-I don’t know from where the whole upswing for Chicago came; while yes, it’s a great school, it’s very often overrated by people on this site.</p>

570

<p>" #560<br>
TourGuide446
Senior Member</p>

<p>Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,070 Seems pointless to rank them one at a time. They seem to fall in general groupings (I know others have suggested this before). The groupings have nothing to do with academic quality (which I think is too complicated to rank). But I think the groupings reflect how people who are aware of colleges and their undergrad offerings would recommend them to other people. In other words, all the colleges in each grouping would be ROUGHLY equal in attractiveness to candidates. You wouldn't be questioned for choosing Columbia over Harvard, for example. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT CalTech, Columbia.</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago, Penn, Duke, Dartmouth, Berkeley.</p></li>
<li><p>Cornell, Michigan, Brown, Northwestern. Hopkins, Virginia.</p></li>
<li><p>Wash U., Carnegie Mellon, Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Tufts.</p></li>
<li><p>Brandeis, UNC, USC, William & Mary, UCSD, RPI, Georgia Tech, Wisconsin, BC, Rochester, NYU.</p></li>
<li><p>Wake Forest, Lehigh, Case Western Reserve, Uof Wash, Texas, Penn State, Illinois."
that's looks very good..I would move rice to the 3 group, and put brown on the 2 group</p></li>
</ol>

571

<p>Pateta, I can see Brown and Rice moving up. How about we put the ones that are a lock at that tier in all caps, and the ones that might be ripe for shifting in lower case?</p>

<ol>
<li>HARVARD, YALE, PRINCETON, MIT, STANFORD, CALTECH, columbia</li>
</ol>

<p>2.CHICAGO, PENN, DUKE, DARTMOUTH, BROWN, BERKELEY</p>

<ol>
<li><p>CORNELL, NORTHWESTERN, HOPKINS, MICHIGAN, VIRGINIA, rice</p></li>
<li><p>WASH U, CMU, EMORY, VANDY, GTOWN, UCLA,TUFTS, notre dame</p></li>
<li><p>BRANDEIS, UNC, W AND M, UCSD, RPI, GA TECH, WISCONSIN, rochester, bc, nyu</p></li>
<li><p>WAKE, LEHIGH, CASE, TEXAS, ILLINOIS, u of washington, psu</p></li>
</ol>

572

<p>I'm surprised you value Columbia so highly. The state schools are also surprisingly high on there, Berkeley especially. UCLA/Notre Dame ahead of BC and NYU? It might just be my northeastern bias showing, but I would rethink that.</p>

573

<p>Notre Dame is, by pretty much every measure, a higher ranked school than BC and NYU.</p>

<p>I also think Chicago, Columbia, Berkeley, Michigan and Virginia should all be moved down one.</p>

574

<p>Berkeley is a good school. I don't know why it is ranked so low on US news. Brutal engineering curriculum.</p>

575

<p>Berkeley is indeed a good school, but if we are talking about undergraduate study, as I am, I don’t think it belongs with the likes of Brown and Duke, or even Cornell, Northwestern, and Rice for that matter.</p>

<p>But, I also think Caltech is the single-most overrated institution on the planet, so who knows…..</p>

576

<p>KK, I am not sure I agree with you on Cornell and Northwestern being better than Cal and Michigan at the undergraduate level. Everything from thir peer assessment scores to class size and from professional placement to graduate school placement suggests that those 4 schools are practically identical. All 4 of them make a serious case for top 10 consideration and all four of them are underrated if you ask me, but to differentiate between them in terms of quality is not that easy. Comparing any of those to Brown and to a lesser extent, Duke, is useless because Brown and Duke operate more as LACs than as research institutions.</p>

577

<p>Berkeley>Northwestern</p>

578

<p>Stanford > Berkeley</p>

<p>I just had to write it.</p>

579

<p>"Berkeley>Northwestern"</p>

<ul>
<li>If you say so..... :rolleyes:</li>
</ul>

580

<p>If Tufts is in Cat. 4 then UNC should definitely be as well. Chapel Hill's rank in U.S. News was relatively consistent recently although they were more of consistent top 25 in the 90's. For all of the other schools in the Cat. 5 I would mostly agree with their placement in the list.</p>