<p>It's still a Cornell education....</p>
<p>and a report from the University of Maryland reported that higher salaries for MBA grads came from students who graduated from top-ranked universities in general, vs. just schools with good MBA programs. </p>
<p>even though so-so college X has an MBA program ranked in the top-8 or whatever, an MBA from Cornell is still an MBA from Cornell no matter where it ranks and all things equal, the Cornell grad will be expected to earn more money.</p>
<p>
[quote]
higher salaries for MBA grads came from students who graduated from top-ranked universities in general, vs. just schools with good MBA programs.</p>
<p>even though so-so college X has an MBA program ranked in the top-8 or whatever, an MBA from Cornell is still an MBA from Cornell no matter where it ranks and all things equal, the Cornell grad will be expected to earn more money.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This, naturally, begs the question: </p>
<p>"Are there Top MBA programs with mediocre undergrad programs?"</p>
<p>Well, let's just take a quick gander at the Top MBA programs:</p>
<p>- HBS: Harvard undergrad rep? Last time i checked, pretty good.
- Wharton: Penn undergrad rep? Ben Franklin would be proud
- Stanford GSB: Stanford undergrad rep? a Tree never looked greener
- MIT Sloan: MIT undergrad rep? Solid as a rocket scientist
- Kellogg: NWU undergrad rep? Whatsoever things are true... don't ask me what the heck that means, but the rep is solid.
- Columbia: Columbia undergrad rep? Another Ivy winner.
- Chicago GSB: UCh undergrad rep? That USNWR marketing is paying off! j/k you Chicagoans - it's all good!</p>
<p>So there is the MBA Top 7... then you've still got:</p>
<ul>
<li>Duke Fuqua</li>
<li>Dartmouth Tuck</li>
<li>Yale SOM</li>
</ul>
<p>you're already at 10... so, back to the original question:</p>
<p>"Are there Top MBA programs with mediocre undergrad programs?"</p>
<p>None that I'd call "Top" ...</p>
<p>“Whatsoever things are true... don't ask me what the heck that means”</p>
<p>-Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. :)</p>
<p>What about St. Johns?</p>
<p>What about St. John's? (College or Uni?)</p>
<p>hey i really dont think im going to read the entire 57 pages of posts...so if you already said this please tell me again :D....if i were to pick the best International relations university which would you say? and maybe a list of which i should consider..the best...the oks...the sure youll get in and the maybes ...i dont know simply a varied and good list :p i would reaally appreciate it ..thanks</p>
<p>^^ isn't georgetown SFS pretty good?</p>
<p>yes i have been told it is...but why is it ranked all the way below the 20s! not that its a bad thing..just wondering...i just didnt know noter dame ranked better than georgetown</p>
<p>is there data on corporate recruitment...it seems people have been saying certain schools are better recruited at even though there is no evidence</p>
<p>I know that THES has a global corporate recruitment score, would that amount to the same thing</p>
<p>"Thoughtprocess,
I accept responsibility for not knowing the PA assessment rankings before speaking. I must have been relying on old data. At the end of the day, Duke, of course, is a fine school. Please just accept the fact that its basketball program is more regarded than its academic reputation to most people. You ask the average person what they think of Duke and we all know the answer? The school is very attractive to recruiters, however, those from the NBA are probably most impressed."</p>
<p>Porsche, I'm not accepting anything you say...after I thoroughly proved that Duke's academic reputation is atleast as good as Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn using so many factors...and most people know everyone at Duke's smart...Dick Vitale seems to take care of that. Who cares of Duke is well known because of bball? Its not like its academics are unknown... and Most people probably couldn't name the entire Ivy League minus Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. Whats your point?</p>
<p>And why would Duke be any less attractive to recruiters than Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, and Brown? I mean, maybe the NBA loves Duke, but I see no evidence that the corporate world does not. I mean, I just use facts, you use anecdotal evidence. Thats all good and fine, just don't expect anyone to believe what you are saying (after all, you just admitted you used "outdated" data for one thing).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Who cares of Duke is well known because of bball? ... Most people probably couldn't name the entire Ivy League minus Harvard, Princeton, and Yale.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I'd argue the same folks who "only know Duke for its basketball" basically overlap the same folks who "can't name a single Ivy outside of HYP" - i.e. a large mass of ignorant America - they kind of knock each other out right, so who really cares? </p>
<p>Further, you argue very fervently and diligently (posting data points, et. al.) on behalf of Duke's academic case -- proving some people wrong in the process. Now if an academic oriented, intellectually curious community of people (such as CC) need some degree of education regarding Duke's top notch academics, what are the odds that the "average" American is going to recognize that level of academic strength, particularly in the face of Duke's preeminent position in the national collegiate basketball spotlight - year in, year out?</p>
<p>I think this is the crux of what Porsche is trying to say, I don't think that anyone is arguing that Duke isn't an excellent university with top notch academics -- but your default position that:</p>
<p>
[quote]
most people know everyone at Duke's smart
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is less convincing, particularly when Duke's athletic program clearly has much higher recognition to the "average" American (again -- as I stated earlier -- who really cares about this demographic anyway) over Duke's academics.</p>
<p>As for recruiting, I think there is some degree of "residual" effect in this regard... how large? Who is to say - every person is different - every person's view is different... it could be anywhere from "insignificant" to "significant"... The fact that Porsche (a Wall Streeter) and myself (a former Wall Streeter) kind of more or less agree - does point to a "reputational" handicap that Duke experiences as a result of its successful, high profile basketball program... (not to mention Coach K - whether its an American Express commercial or a press conference for Team Basketball USA - there is ABSOLUTELY no denying that he is one of the most famous coaches in America. Period. How do you compete with that kind of recognition? How many collegiate coaches are SO FAMOUS - gets immediate recognition - that he can be a pitchman for American Express?... put another way, do you see an Ivy League coaches making American Express commercials? Why not? Because the Ivies aren't known for its sports. Period. Even when Princeton wins a national Lacrosse title or when Brown rowing wins a national title, etc. - noone is going to mistake those schools for "jock" schools - in fact, to the contrary, they will be seen as Ivy student-athletes who have overachieved... deserved or not that's the case.)</p>
<p>Bottom line, some schools just carry some undeniably strong associations:</p>
<p>Notre Dame - Football
Duke - Basketball</p>
<p>What are you gonna do about it? At least it's a positive image. At least it's better than being known nationally for its Lacrosse program (and any resulting negative press about racism, misogynistic behavior etc.)</p>
<p>When you look at it that way, I'd count my basketball fame (which overshadows everything good and bad) as a blessing.</p>
<p>Well, see, I didn't respond to Porsche thinking he was a member of CC needing education - I just responded to him because he didn't know what he was talking about...but as adamant about it anyways.</p>
<p>Also, I mentioned the "can't name the non HYP ivies" thing for that reason - who cares about the general public? I was saying its better to be known for basketball than not known at all. But thats an exageration - I'm sure the majority of people are familiar with what schools are good etc. Agreed that having a good bball program overshadows the LaX problems, even though personally I believe LaX problems at Duke don't exist in a way not preeminent at other universities as well.</p>
<p>Also, I would love to see some numbers on recruitment.</p>
<p>The THES global recruitment survey would be the closest thing to it, and I'm gonna search for it to see if Dartmouth, Columbia, Brown, Penn indeed score higher than Duke (and I doubt that).</p>
<p>THES is a ranking for grad schools and research prowess.</p>
<p>Otherwise, Cal would not be ranked the 3rd best in the US, and Princeton would definitely be either no. 1, 2 or 3 instead of ranking no. 7. </p>
<p>Need more evidence? What in the world is UC San Francisco doing in this list period - much less ranking the 10th best in the US? It doesn't even have an undergraduate program.</p>
<p>Why is Duke ranked 11th then...ahead of even Columbia...it must take undergrad into account somewhat, or be geared completely towards preprofessionalism</p>
<p>“Why is Duke ranked 11th then...ahead of even Columbia”</p>
<p>Because Duke is awesome and Columbia is not. J/k…. Who knows…… But more importantly, who cares…. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>thoughtprocess,</p>
<p>the fact that UCSF is on this list at all - much less in the Top 10 - is clear evidence that undergrad is not taken into consideration...</p>
<p>think about it - how in the world does an institution without an undergrad program make it to no. 10 if this list is supposed to count undergrad programs?</p>
<p>simple - it doesn't take undergrad into account. period.</p>
<p>kk, i thought your football team was supposed to be good - what happened? </p>
<p>V. Tech drubbed you guys 38-0...</p>
<p>yeah i know what you mean, just confused, thought THES took undergrad into account...but actually the rankings favor schools from the perspective of employers based on how they weight the global corporate survey</p>
<p>Indeed Northeastern does suck… 38-0? Hilarious. :)</p>