<p>NCG,
Why though? Why do DO’s get two chances at residency than MDs even though entry criteria in med schools for MDs are clearly much higher than DOs. It doesn’t make sense somehow.</p>
<p>Pharmagal:</p>
<p>I don’t understand what you’re getting at. Are you suggesting that since successful MD applicants meet higher numeric criteria than successful DO applicants, MD applicants are better than DO applicants and therefore should get the two chances at residency?</p>
<p>In general, why should it have to make sense? I can think of quite a few things about medical education in this country that don’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense to get hung up on this one.</p>
<p>There is a significant culture difference between allopathic and DO programs. MD students generally aren’t interested in applying to DO programs and to a lesser extent the reverse is also true. The perception (rightly or wrongly, I’m not going there) from the MD side of the tracks is that DO programs are not as good. Keep in mind that we can’t even fill all the ACGME residencies with US grads and rely on IMGs to fill the slots US med students don’t want, so why would a US student even consider applying to a DO program? In 20 years I’ve never seen one do it. It might happen, but not that I’ve seen.</p>
<p>As another illustration of the culture gap, look at the faculty of any medical school- you’ll be lucky to find a handful of DOs, if that.</p>
<p>You could reverse the logic and say that DO schools need twice as many chances in order to make it into residency. Bottom line though is that it ISN’T fair and it does annoy a lot of people that the AOA (o for osteopath not Omega) prevents MD applicants into their residencies by hiding behind the argument of MD students not knowing osteopathic manipulation.</p>
<p>I think there is greater variability between top and bottom D.O. schools. The one in Texas has fairly high standards for acceptance and does substantially better in getting residencies. I believe 110 of 150 students last year got ACGME residencies.</p>
<p>Shades, No. I am not suggesting that MD students get 2 chances at residency slots. I am just surprised that DO students get 2 chances as opposed to MD students who get only 1 chance (per NCG’s post).</p>
<p>Looking at the MCAT and GPA averages for matriculating DO students, these are clearly way, way lower than those of MD matriculants. If there’s a positive correlation between high MCAT&GPA scores with STEP1 and 2 scores, I would suspect that MDs do better than DOs on STEP1 and 2 scores as well. </p>
<p>So far, the Mantra in Medicine appeared to be that ‘it’s a numbers game to a large extent’… so much that applicants to med schools seem to be weeded out for low MCATs and low GPA. Then it just seems illogical to me to have loopholes in the system that provide an ‘extra edge’ in procuring residency slots to DO students. Is it too much to expect a Medical education system should have logic, especially given that these graduates are going to deal with patients’ lives?</p>
<p>I am just flabbergasted to see that MD students who persevere and keep plugging away to achieve high STEP1 and 2 scores are actually not upset that the system provides DOs two chances for residency slots vs one single chance that they get.</p>
<p>Unless, there’s more to the system that I am not getting. If so, do explain.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why you get the feeling that DO’s have an advantage. First, they have to take two boards if they wanted to be eligible for MD residencies. They have to take the COMLEX and they have to take the USMLE. Secondly, many MD programs either openly or not-so-openly discriminate against DO applicants. Thus, DO applicants have to score ABOVE their MD counterparts in order to obtain the same position. The DO curriculum is similar to the MD curriculum but there are differences. The DO curriculum is geared towards the COMLEX while the MD curriculum is geared towards the USMLE. So, if a DO student can get a 250 on the USMLE, doesn’t that make their achievement even more impressive than a MD student who gets a 250 on the USMLE? Who cares what they got in college or on the MCAT. That’s irrelevant for the practice of medicine.</p>
<p>If a DO is unable to match into a DO residency for dermatology, they’re even more unlikely to match into a MD residency for dermatology (unless there’s a huge mismatch b/w their COMLEX and USMLE scores). Therefore, the “2nd chance” at matching is probably reserved for an easier specialty (for example, a DO student who didn’t match at a derm DO residency would probably apply to an internal med MD residency). If you match in the DO match, you are automatically dropped from the MD match so this isn’t about being able to choose b/w a DO and a MD derm residency. There’s no hidden advantage here. DO’s have a harder time matching into specialties because there’s proportionally fewer DO specialty spots per DO medical student than MD spots for MD students. Hence, for someone aspiring to be a specialist (which is most of the US med students), it still makes sense to be a MD.</p>
<p>Additional note: It still makes more sense to do DO than to be a MD in the Caribbean. The competitive residencies at my school will still consider DO applicants but toss out applications they get from IMG’s/FMG’s.</p>
<p>Thanks for explaining fully, NCG. Now, I understand it better. Got it!</p>
<p>$20k / yr scholarship from UVA. I finally know where I’m going to be next year. CYCLE IS OVER!</p>
<p>Congrats Steeler…enjoy (as much as you will have time to) Charlottesville…:)</p>
<p>Great news, Steeler!!! Fantastic!!</p>
<p>Again. Way to go, Steeler. You must be over the moon.</p>
<p>Mine still can’t get any direct FA data out of BCM (or Yale). 3 weeks to go and zippo. Moral of this story…be as pro-active with all FA forms as you can. She had FAFSA and tax returns and needaccess done way early but the school specific forms were not sent as timely as they could have been. But still, they’ve had them for 3-4 weeks now. Your goal should be first batch FA awards.</p>
<p>Congrats Steeler, that’s amazing!</p>
<p>Congratulations, Steeler! Way to go!</p>
<p>Heard today about a $3k university tuition award from UW with the potential of more to come in “a while” :D</p>
<p>Excellent news, Steeler!</p>
<p>IS tuition + free $ at UDub. Things are looking good. ;)</p>
<p>Fantastic, Steeler! Congratulations!</p>
<p>Good going, Steeler!</p>
<p>Congrats, Steeler! </p>
<p>D is leaning on going to a NYC school because she wants to do her residency in NYC, but the school has a new curriculum of an accelerated preclinical (1.5 years) with the students taking the Step 1 (in Jan/ Feb? of the third year) after 1 year of clinical. Wouldn’t the students forget a lot of the materials? Also isn’t the third year the most important in doing well in terms of grades? Thoughts? (Help?)</p>
<p>Their curriculum is also on an organ-based system. Good or bad?</p>