@LucieTheLakie Sometimes I just get lucky! :)>-
The increase in Alabama students at UA is 17% between 2004 and 2012. That probably is at least equal to the population increase. They had to recruit OOS students if they wanted to grow the university. A population of 18K students is too small. A nationally recognized university needs to be in the 25 - 30K range.
From this link, we see that the number of in state freshmen peaked in 2008 at 3207. Since this time, it has declined to 2474 as of 2014. I have yet to find numbers for 2015. Anyone have them?
UA still has the greatest number of in state students of any school in the state, but in the last two years, Auburn has had more freshman in state students. Look at https://web.auburn.edu/ir/factbook/enrollment/newstudents/sofstate.aspx
to see the dramatic increase of in state students going to Auburn. From only 2276 in 2011, to 2912 in 2015.
I love that the percentage of OOS students has risen so dramatically, but am concerned that UA is no longer getting the most in state students as freshman. Auburn had almost 300 more in state students in 2014 than UA did.
Is it possible UA has spent too little energy on recruiting the top in state students? Why are more now going to Auburn? Are too many of the in state students turned off by the growing size of the student body at UA, and possibly, the huge new and exclusive Greek mansions popping up on campus? Do too many in state high school students now think UA is too focused on out of state students? I hope these are questions the administration will try to answer.
Keeping UA as the top destination for high school in state seniors will help maintain support for UA on the political scene, which is reason enough to care about this issue.
Auburn is beautiful.
I’d say if Auburn had as good an OOS deal as Bama that they might get more OOS, but since their merit scholarships are lower, it is less attractive to OOS.
Well before Dr. Witt arrived, Auburn was the most popular choice for in state students, but once his plan was implemented, UA became the most popular choice. So it is just odd to me that it seems to have reversed since 2008’s peak. Most people would agree that UA has the more attractive campus, but is there something about the dramatic growth at UA and its subsequent effects that intimidate or put off in state students?
Is there the possibility the Auburn is not as selective as UA is for incoming students. Looks like that is true for engineering:
AU (25/75 ACT, % Top 25 grad class) 27/32 70%
UA 28/33 77%
Good question.
Maybe @mom2collegekids and @SOSConcern can comment since I believe they both live in AL.
Maybe the size does turn some students off.
AU (total/UG/ratio Faculty:Student) 25912/20629 17:1
UA 36047/30752 21:1
http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=The+university+of+Alabama&s=AL&id=100751#admsns
Keep in mind that UA has a higher percentage of small classes than Auburn, so I think the ratio gets distorted cause UA’s larger classes are much larger than their large classes. UA has a much bigger Honors Program, with more small classes. Still, for non Honors students this large class size could be an issue.
UA UG enrollment is roughly equal to UM, UIUC, UW, Purdue, ISU. Smaller than MSU, OSU, PSU (all at about 39/40K).
AU is similar to University of Iowa; smallest public flagship school in Midwest.
UA and AU are both light on Grad enrollment as % of UG. UM, UIUC, UW all at about 30 - 35%.
http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Michigan+State+University&s=all&id=171100#enrolmt
Florida is 32K UG, Georgia Tech is 15K UG, Ole Miss 18K, Miss St 16K
Texas A&M 47K, LSU 25K
UA is more the size of the B1G schools (except Grad enrollment). AU is more geared toward the smaller public side.
Does Dr. Witt’s background make him aspire to be more like the big research universities in B1G (all part of AAU) or stay smaller and more UG focused?
This is what he wrote back in 2006, when he was president of UA:
UAB actually has a higher Carnegie Classification than either UA or AU, I assume due to the presence of the UA system’s medical school on campus. (You can look up any school here: http://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/lookup/lookup.php).
In case you weren’t aware, Witt will step down as chancellor of the UA system this year. I think by most accounts he’s done a very good job (and even surpassed) the goals he set out for UA in 2003: http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20150831/NEWS/150839957?p=1&tc=pg
It is truly unfortunate when a high performing organization loses a visionary, i.e. Apple and Steve Jobs. I hope his successor has the vision and ability to continue UA’s continued ascent.
Has Witt’s successor been announced?
Yes, UAB’s Carnegie classification is due to its medical research related grad programs, not its undergrad programs.
Yes, Witt’s successor has been named:
http://www.cw.ua.edu/article/2015/10/next-chancellor-feels-confident-in-his-abilities
http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/news/2015/08/27/four-things-to-know-about-ray-hayes-ua-systems.html
Ray Hayes doesn’t seem as much a “visionary” type as Witt, but he’s tasked with a very different job than Witt was, and apparently he was Witt’s choice for the job too.
Ray Hayes is to Witt like Tim Cook is to Steve Jobs. Hayes will need visionaries around him just like Cook will at Apple.
There are few people in this world with the skills of Witt for sure. UA has come a long way in ten tears and cannot afford to lose momentum.
OK - so I will comment about questions re in-state student choices. We have lived in N AL since 1983, and I worked for UAH in the late 1980’s (in Cooperative Education).
On the graduates from my kid’s Catholic HS, I have been looking at where the students are choosing tp attend, and the highest 4 colleges - AU, UA, UAB, and UAH; MS State to a lesser degree, USA, UNA, Montevallo. Those choosing MS State get solid scholarship and pay in-state rate or full tuition scholarship - those have been offered for years. Ole MS has started to loosen the scholarships a bit for OOS too in the last couple of years.
So from a tiny sample from this private HS, here it is:
*Class of 2015 (128 graduates): AU (28); UA (14); UAH (14); USA (10); UAB (6); MS State (6)
*Class of 2014 (85 graduates, DD’s Class, small class; class of 2015 attending new school all 4 years): UAH (10); UA (9); UAB (8); AU (5)
*Class of 2013 (97 graduates): AU (21); UAB (13); UA (6); USA (5); UAH (4); MS State (4); Montevallo (4); UNA (3)
*Class of 2012 ( 84 graduates, DD’s Class, also small class):UAB (14); AU (12); UAH (7); UNA (7); MS State (6); UA (5); USA (3)
AU has a lot of kids that choose to go there from our large HSs - many because their friends are going there (and some of those students do finish at AU-Montgomery - for business, nursing). We have parents/GP that have gone to AU. I just have seen a lot choosing to go there - a few for pre-pharmacy or pre-vet (with the vet and pharmacy school there). Samford (private, in B’ham) is the other pharmacy school in AL. I also see more students at AU going over four years for UG degree - some due to working and re-taking classes they either didn’t pass or dropped. Of course I see some weak students going to UA, but not as many as AU.
AL has two med schools, UAB and USA.
Some students also planning to go into OT, PT, etc may choose a particular school.
UAB is favorable for many students for in-state scholarships. UAH has a lot of smart local kids that choose to stay in this area and also do well with scholarship, and some actually still do live in student housing instead of commuting.
As time goes on, more engineering students are choosing to go to UA instead of the traditional other engineering schools.
For the poster that commented how beautiful AU’s campus is - AU does not hit top 10 in the country like UA does.
UA is the largest over all these schools I mentioned, and has successfully drawn students from a wider geographic area.
To also comment about IL - The Dubuque IA Telegraph Herald paper 12-24-15 had an article written by IL Policy Institute Scott Reeder, and titled “Illinois universitites take ‘desperate action’ amid budget crisis”. IL has been overspending and have underfunded state pensions. The article states Western Illinois University President asked the school’s board of trustees to hold off voting on a plan that called for cuts of $7.5 million, including the elimination of 50 faculty positions by the summer. “Words are flying out of Springfield, but money isn’t.”
UAH President’s Annual report FY15 is available online, and I imagine the other AL public universities will have them available soon if not already. UAH had record-breaking enrollment increases with strong stats with incoming students. “Enrollment is up, but not at the expense of quality.”
Very interesting, @SOSConcern. Thanks for taking the time to share that.
I wonder if because there are three strong schools in the UA system if that splits the choices between the schools. I didn’t realize Auburn had satellite campuses, but it sounds like for most students if they choose AU, they want to go to school in Auburn.
FWIW, I just dusted off my old Fiske Guide, which is a little out of date now, but in contrasting the descriptions between the two universities (AU and UA), it does sound like AU is considerably more conservative and attracts students primarily from the South, especially legacies. Maybe the average Alabamian student is just more comfortable at AU than UA?
Auburn has one satellite campus, in Montgomery, and that satellite does not have anywhere near the academic rep that UAB and UAH have, so LucieTheLakie may be on to something. Yes, Auburn has had the rep for being the more conservative school, but why despite that rep was UA able to get more in state students than Auburn did shortly after Witt arrived till the several years?
Another possible factor: I think the state guidance counselors are still stuck on seeing Auburn as the top academic school. They give Auburn a slightly higher rating each year in the USNWR on academic rep. Maybe more of them went to Auburn given that Auburn was the bigger school from the late 40s till 2006.
As a native Huntsvillian I believe I can speak on what SOS has eloquently elaborated. I went to the Catholic HS that he/she is speaking about. Even though I didn’t graduate from there (transferred to a public high school) I have noticed an alarming trend with high schoolers in this city. When I graduated in 2005 almost everyone I knew from all public/private schools went to UA. I believe this was the time Dr. Witt was really focusing and becoming his own in recruiting. Fast forward 10 years and almost every graduating high school kid of a co-worker is going to Auburn regardless of where the parent attended. I don’t know if Auburn is just recruiting Huntsville better than Bama at this moment or if there is an underlying issue. I do know that many Auburn Engineer grads that moved to Huntsville will only send their kids to Auburn or any other school with a strong reputable engineering program not named University of Alabama; whereas, parents that graduated from Alabama and have kids going to college don’t seem to care where they go.
Huntsville has always had a strong presence of Auburn, Purdue, and many other strong engineering programs and in fact I would say that there is a certain public school in the city that is basically a feeder school to Auburn. I would like to know if there has been a change in recruiting the best and brightest not just from out of state but in this state. I feel like we are losing ground in a city that makes a difference throughout the world due to the talent it attracts.
Wow, @UA2009 , the rivalry between UA and AU is so strong that it goes off the sports field? Parents from AU actually bar their children from attending UA?
Are you also saying that the parents who are Purdue, UIUC, or wherever graduates are also telling their kids to go to AU or is that more a peer pressure thing for those kids?
I graduated from ISU and do not love UIUC or Purdue but if my kids wanted to apply and were accepted there, I certainly not bar them from attending.
No amount of recruiting will overcome entrenched animosity. Is it possible that due to UA rise in academics/profile that AU graduates are fighting back? Maybe before they did not care as much because they were seen as the superior school.