<p>And it begins! AMCAS 2015 opened today</p>
<p>^ Forgot to add it looks like a June 3rd submission start date (of course, this is subject to change like last year)</p>
<p>My S is changing his mind and planning to delay his application by a year… He got accepted into 5 year BS-MPH and decided to apply for medical school in Sr year… He is ready to go this year…He has very high MCAT/GPA and other ECs. But changed his mind.</p>
<p>Good luck to you all and your kiddos!</p>
<p>Just joining the discussion. I was so happy to find this thread and read all of your great advice and knowledge. My son is finishing his sophomore year and is planning to take his MCATs in August. Everyone kept telling me that’s it’s too early. I was glad to see from this thread that a lot of your kids took the exam in summer or early fall of their junior year. We also had the anxiety of old MCATs vs new MCATs. So called few schools and all said that it doesn’t matter as long as it’s under 3 years when applying. He’s planning on applying next year. I was surprised to read here that application process starts in early June.
Question about MCATs score mentioned earlier in this thread. Someone said that it usually falls within 2 point of ACT score. Can someone explain that? Act goes to 36 and MCATs to 45. So how does that work?
Back in high school son was a pretty good test takers. Got a 34 on ACT without much prep. He signed up for Kaplan course for this summer. I posted a question of if prep class is needed on mcat prep forum but didn’t get much info. So we decided that it’s better be safe then sorry. I would rather say “he really didn’t need the class” after he got a great score then “I wish he took the class” after he bombed it.
His GPA as of now is pretty good. I’m worried about his ECs. He’s doing a great research at school. It’s not related to medicine. Would that be considered as one of his ECs. He doesn’t have much shadowing. Will hopefully do some this summer. How important are the ECs for med school application. For example if the student has a 3.9 GPA and a 36 MCATs would a lack of relevant ECs prevent him from getting into a med school?
Thanks everyone</p>
<p>One more question. How do I find this LizzyM spreadsheet? And what is SDN and what is the link to it</p>
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<p>The application for 2015 has already opened as of May 1st. Only the first submit date is June 3rd.</p>
<p>There are very few people each year crossing 38 (1000?). The rule being used is ACT plus or minus 2 points which means for most people this works. However, getting a higher score is usually possible for people who have been closer to having perfect scores in high school. Some I have known with a perfect score in ACT have scored 40 or higher.</p>
<p>Other than taking MCAT, how is your son showing interest in medicine? He is still a sophomore and he should be able to find activities and even research which is relevant to medicine.</p>
<p>What is your son’s home State?</p>
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<p>MCAT scores are correlated in terms of percentiles with other standardized exams, not in terms of numeric score. Any direct comparison with ACT scores is nonsense. </p>
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For people who consistently do very well on standardized exam, any formal course is a waste of $$. I self studied and scored in the 99+ percentile.</p>
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<p>Research is good to have, … not mandatory, but will be looked on favorably. (esp. at the higher tier research oriented schools)
ECs are very important. You won’t have much success trying to apply on numbers alone. What is your son doing with his summers? Don’t waste them.</p>
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It’s all over the Internet. Such as …
pmhs.berkeley.edu/documents/School<em>Selector</em>2010-2011.xls </p>
<p>SDN would be something for your S to consider. </p>
<p>Forget about any ACT-MCAT concordance. It’s more myth than fact. Student who do well on standardized exam tend to do well on all standardized exams. His best estimate of his real MCAT score will how well he does on MCAT practice exams. (Rule of thumb–take the average of his last 3 full length MCAT practice scores and subtract 3.)</p>
<p>The LizzyM spreadsheet requires a SDN registration to DL. However, the spreadsheet is woefully out of date. (I believe the most recent version is from 2009-10? Maybe even 2008-09?) The average MCAT score for successful applicants has gone up by 3-4 points since then and the average GPA has also risen.</p>
<p>SDN = studentdoctor.net (Also known as Super Duper Neurotic) Some good info, but also a who lot of obsessiveness and over-the-top competitiveness too. Take any advice with about a metric ton of salt–unless it comes from a verified source. Like an actual adcomm. (Adcomms are noted as such on their avatar.)</p>
<p>Your son needs to buy access to MSAR from AMCAS to get the most recent data. USNews also has a subscription package which has additional info (esp about in-state vs OOS application, interview and matriculation numbers) that may be useful. MSAR reports accepted student data; USNews reports matriculated student data–which are NOT the same thing. </p>
<p>RE: MCAT timing. Not all schools will accept scores that are 3 years old. According to AAMC data, only 60% of schools will accept 3 year old scores. The other 40% require scores to be no more than 2 years old. <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/332616/whichexamwillyoutake.html”>https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/332616/whichexamwillyoutake.html</a> </p>
<p>AMCAS will only verify scores for 3 years from the test date. (However, like a bad case of herpes, old MCAT scores never disappear. They will be included on any and all score reports sent to med schools for 10+ years.)</p>
<p>ECs are very important.</p>
<p>There’s saying: your MCAT + GPA will get your application looked at, but it’s your ECs that get you accepted.</p>
<p>Expected ECs include: shadowing, clinical and non clinical volunteering, research, leadership. Some schools also highly value teaching/tutoring.</p>
<p>Two reports you should look at:</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf”>https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf</a></p>
<p>This 2013 report on how Med school adcomms use the MCAT and other factors in selecting students for interviews and admission.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf”>https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf</a></p>
<p>Analysis in Brief (AAMC White Paper)–Medical School Admissions: More than Just Grades and Test Scores</p>
<p>His home state is New Jersey. The research he’s doing is chemistry, so not med related. He’s been doing this research since his freshman year so has a great relationship with the professor who is now his advisor. He’s hoping to get published next year. </p>
<p>This summer he’s planning to study for MCATs, do some tutoring, do shadowing and hopefully get a part time job (not related to medicine). Last summer he worked with a doctor in one of NYC hospitals seeing patients and doing some research. But wasn’t published. Is being published very important? He also went overseas for a month for his chemistry research sponsored by his school. He also plays club sport for the school. </p>
<p>But he doesn’t really have any community service hours. Like working in animal shelter or serving soup to the poor. How important is that. </p>
<p>His current GPA after sophomore year is 3.93 and 3.96 science GPA He’s done with all his premed required science courses including biochem. But he’s a hard core science guy so will be taking a lot more next year. He’s attending one of the top 30 research universities know for its great and difficult premed program. </p>
<p>As I’m reading this back he sounds great on paper. And I’m really not trying to brag. But he just got rejected from his schools early assurance round after being interviewed. He thought his interview went really well. So he’s all confused about why. In this round ECs were not a factor, but he did mention what he has done in his essay. So now he feels that if his school’s medical school didn’t take him with such a great GPA and really good recs, who will. So he’s kind of down on life in general and feeling rejected. And I understand where he’s coming from. But I have the same fear. What if he doesn’t get into any med school?</p>
<p>^ Just a wild guess here: It could be the case where the EA admission for med school is mostly for the med school to recruit some students who they have a hard time to “lock in” in the regular admission cycle. Some “special program” may even prefer to recruit humanity students in the EA cycle (you never know.)</p>
<p>It may be somewhat like the EA to HYPS in the college application cycle, where the stats is not the most important criterion in their EA admission cycle as they could likely fill their incoming class 3 times with the students with the similar stats if they admit the students based on the stats alone. They look at something you never know what it may be.</p>
<p>Work on all other required items and apply widely/wisely in the regular cycle and I think he will get in. Just have a thick skin and do not fall in love with any school in the application cycle.</p>
<p>momworried,</p>
<p>I think a couple of things that are maybe a little at odds with each other.</p>
<p>1) don’t put too much stock into being rejected in the early assurance round. It is not necessarily an indicator of things to come, they often have stricter criteria.</p>
<p>2) med school admissions are often a crapshoot. all med school applicants should have a back up plan, at least for a year until they can reapply. Does your son have a back up plan? My daughter’s is to apply to MPH programs at the same time and to have other skills that are easily marketable to be able to get a paying job if none of the grad school applications work out.</p>
<p>@momworried: Your son’s lack of medically relevant ECs (i.e. hands on clinical experience and shadowing) probably had a great deal to do with his EA rejection. He has time to fix that.</p>
<p>I agree with having a back-up plan in place. It’s extremely important–even for seemingly well-qualified candidates because admissions can be [seemingly] capricious. Both of my Ds had back-up plans that went beyond just “fix deficiencies, apply again.” The alternative careers for each would have given them high paying secure jobs within the healthcare professions. (Medical physics for one; biostatistics/epidemiology for the other.)</p>
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<p>If you look at the first report I linked above, you’ll see that admission committees ranked community service/non-clinical volunteering as having “highest importance” in terms of activities/ECs, second only to having hands on clinical experience. </p>
<p>WayOutWestMom, a stupid question: what would be considered hands on clinical experience and how do you’d get being just a student?</p>
<p>My D has been shadowing doctors since she was in high school. She has shadowed different ones, here in Iowa while in high school and in NOLA while at Tulane. She has shadowed different ones each school year. She started with her pulmonologist while in high school. He let her shadow him in the NICU and do anything any other volunteer was allowed to do.</p>
<p>I am not exactly sure how she got hooked up with the doctor’s in NOLA, other than Tulane seems to have a very good undergrad med school advisor who helps premed students find doctors. I still remember the day in January she called me on cloud 9 because he had given her a stethoscope. So, he must be teaching her how to use it and then allowing her to use it under his supervision. Those are at least the starts of some clinical experience that an undergrad can do.</p>
<p>Hands on clinical experience includes any paid or volunteer position that brings the student into direct patient contact. (In the infamous words of LizzyM “if you’re close enough to smell the patient, it’s clinical experience”.)</p>
<p>This may be done at a hospital, at a stand alone clinic, at a group or nursing home or at a physician’s office. There are a whole range and variety of paid and volunteer positions where your son will come into contact with patients-- EMT, medical scribe, clinical research assistant, patient transporter, ER or other hospital dept volunteer (so long as it’s not just doing stock work or administrative paperwork chores), therapy aide, OR tech, volunteer therapy assistant at a group home, public health clinical study recruiter, ski patrol…</p>
<p>If possible, your son should have at least one long term clinical volunteer experience and perhaps some shorter term experiences at a variety of different medical practice settings. </p>
<p>It’s also nice if these experiences reflect your son’s personal interests. </p>
<p>(For example, D1 is an outdoors-person and athlete. She worked as a volunteer EMT for Mountain Search & Rescue. She also volunteered at several ER depts at different hospitals. D1 is interested in neuroscience and the brain. She volunteered as therapy aide in a neuro rehab ward for 1.5 years and was a clinical research asst for a neuroscience research group for 3 years during undergrad and another 2 year full time after graduation. She actually performed procedures on medical volunteers. She also took medical histories, cross-checked medical records and did follow-up with patients after procedures.)</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. He does have a backup plan. His major is very employable. And from how everyone’s describing clinical experience he does have some. The shadow that he did was at private practice where he saw patients together with the dr. And also when he was at NYC hospital last year he was also seeing patients. So I guess it’s not as bad as I thought. In addition he’s trying to set up shadowing for this summer.
I’m curious. What about going to Caribbean med school if you don’t get in sates instead of waiting till next year or just doing something totally different with your life?</p>
<p>Caribbean medical schools are a terrible idea. </p>
<p>1) these are for-profit schools which are not LCME accredited</p>
<p>2) caribbean schools have terrible graduation rates and/or poor USMLE pass rates. </p>
<p>3) a foreign medical degree has a severe negative impact on a grad’s ability to match into a US residency. Currently only about 40% of IMGs (US residents with foreign medical degrees) match into ANY residency program, even after multiple attempts. The first attempt match rate for US MD seniors is 95% and for US DO seniors it’s 87%.</p>
<p>4) there is a looming medical residency shortage. The number of MD and DO programs has increased over the last 10 years and 8-10 additional new medical schools have received provisional approval to open in the next decade. However, the number of medical residency slots has basically been flat since 1999. It’s estimated that by ~2016, the number of US medical grads will equal or exceed the number of residency slots. In this new competitive environment, it’ll be IMGs who’ll be the big losers.</p>
<p>What type of chemistry research is he doing? I am surprised to see a statement implying since it is chemistry it must be non-medical.</p>