2014 questions, speculations, comments

<p>edcatkk, you can look at this table and judge for yourself: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16276306-post498.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16276306-post498.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>arkie2014,</p>

<p>Not all schools in NJ are created equally for sure…The average SAT score at our HS is 1420. And yes, that is with all 3 parts included…Not exactly Lawrenceville Prep or any of those schools in the central or northern part of the state…</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16276306-post498.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16276306-post498.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>edc, above is a link for psat cutoff scores for all states that goes back a lot of years. if i posted it wrong here, it’s post 654 on the class of 2014 qualifying score. that will help some in answering ur question. generally, the score is expected to go up some in most states this year, some people have thought around 2 points, honestly, there are all sorts of theories as to how much it will go up. I’ve got to take care of some other stuff now but I’ll comment on a 208 in Michigan later on this weekend when I can take some time to look at the historical data. a 2300 on the SAT will open up all sorts of doors too, including scholarship doors regardless of nmsf status so congrats on that.</p>

<p>I understand the logic. However, my school does not fit the bill for “better educational opportunities” even though we’re in a high cutoff state. It’s just a little bit of a bummer, but I can’t do anything about it besides wait :)</p>

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<p>My daughter’s writing was her weakest area – 68. If it was easier this year, they forgot to tell her… :)</p>

<p>Thank you for your posts on this forum. Your posts have been helpful to me, and I’m glad to have company in misery…</p>

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<p>You’re welcome, @IxnayBob. I hope releasing a little steam takes the edge off. I have a mixed feelings on the state-by-state cutoff. On one hand, it is totally not fair to the many of the eastern states and California. On the other hand, if we went by raw scores on the national level instead of regional-type scores, we’d see far fewer (if any) semifinalists from Arkansas, Mississippi, North Dakota, West Virginia, and Wyoming. That seems unfair to punish students in those states for being the “big fish in a small pond” so to speak.</p>

<p>I don’t know the most fair way to apportion the “National Merit” awards. I empathize with you that the current way is not the most fair way. </p>

<p>I definitely agree with your online posting point. Our kids PSAT scores are online already, it wouldn’t be a big deal just to make an indication on the website that the score qualifies you for commended student, national merit semifinalist, national achievement scholarship program eligible, etc. As @ridethewave points out, the AP scores are online, and the College Board has already indicated a program for recognizing “AP Scholar”, “AP Scholar with Honor”, “AP Scholar with Distinction”, ad nauseam </p>

<p>Misery loves company… Thanks for joining in this conversation…</p>

<p>I always dislike the “unfairness” discussion about scores by state. It’s a private company is it not? They can set their rules any way they see fit.</p>

<p>What I don’t understand is why that can’t make it the top 1% (roughly 15,000) and then if states are under-represented expand for those states (to a reasonable number)? It would not hurt the students who are better prepared (or whose abilities are higher), while also being inclusive as needed.</p>

<p>I guess that is my vent. In the meantime, we wait.</p>

<p>I can understand the vent for state-to-state cut-off, especially when REAL money is involved. </p>

<p>I can also understand if someone missed the cutoff and feels they won’t be honored in some way. But don’t worry about that because there are other academic distinctions, such as AP titles, etc. </p>

<p>However, if someone is venting because they think NOT making NMF/NMS will hurt them with college admissions, then they can calm down because most schools will look at SAT Scores, ACT Scores, Subject Scores, AP scores (if you write them down), along with PSAT scores and the various GPAs (some schools have 8 different GPAs)… So the PSAT is JUST one number in the mix. It won’t lock anyone out of a school the caliber of Harvard. At my local high school, not one student accepted to Harvard in the past four years made the National Merit Finalist cut-off. It just goes to show that Harvard looks way beyond those numbers. But it may have helped those who DID make the cut-off get accepted in more prestigious schools as some colleges like to have bragging rights to the number of National Merit Scholars.</p>

<p>Hoggirl: NMSC is a non-profit organization and clearly can set their parameters as they see fit. However, their mission statement below may be contrary to their parameters, as it excludes many who have scored very well on the test. In the end, what is meant to be will be. Good luck.</p>

<p>NMSC Mission Statement
The mission of National Merit Scholarship Corporation (NMSC) is to recognize and honor the academically talented students of the United States. NMSC accomplishes its mission by conducting nationwide academic scholarship programs. The enduring goals of NMSC’s scholarship programs are:</p>

<p>•to promote a wider and deeper respect for learning in general and for exceptionally talented individuals in particular
•to shine a spotlight on brilliant students and encourage the pursuit of academic excellence at all levels of education
•to stimulate increased support from organizations that wish to sponsor scholarships for outstanding scholastic talent</p>

<p>Lagunal: What you say is absolutely true. There are so many factors involved in the decision process at a college or university that one factor such as this is just that (one factor). </p>

<p>Good luck to you or yours in the process.</p>

<p>^I do understand the frustration. But there is somehow this idea that ALL qualifiers from low cut-off states are close to that low cut-off number. That is simply not the case. We are in a low cut-off state, but my dc’s score is well above >225. To list states such as Mississippi, West Virginia, North Dakota, Arkansas, and Wyoming and imply that there might not be <em>any</em> qualifiers is incorrect.</p>

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<p>Actually, ILfather, it did take the edge off. It made me think about why I wanted to know as soon as possible, and I realized that (in practice) it probably won’t make much difference. My son is applying mostly to schools that give need-based FA, and luckily we have 529s and my wife’s good income (the compensating virtue of living in NJ) and we won’t qualify for need-based aid.</p>

<p>My wife’s company does not participate in scholarships either, so likely the only benefit will be as a line in the application. So, I should just chill; I guess I got caught up in wanting to know.</p>

<p>I still, for what it’s worth, think that it would require NO programming effort for them to simply post the cutoffs by state online. If they would collaborate with CollegeBoard, that would be even better, but not really necessary.</p>

<p>Hoggirl: Congratulation for your son’s or daughter’s high achievement. Clearly they would qualify in any state. In no way do I think that because a state has a low cutoff that all needed it to qualify. There are likely many that would have qualified in almost all, or all states. It is the method that % of qualifiers are force-fit to give a by population ratio, that does not seem quite in line with their mission. However, that is the way it is, and it won’t change because I commented on it today.</p>

<p>That comment was not directed at you padad2d. It is just frustrating to me when someone lists low cut-off states and then proclaims that there might not be ANY qualifiers in those states if the system were set up differently. My dc took the test as a sophomore and would have qualified at that point in about half of the states. Out of pride or vanity or something, it was important to me that dc do well enough when it counted to make it <em>anywhere</em>. It is unlikely to EVER come up. But, I don’t want someone dissing my kid and saying the only reason sh/e made it was because we are in a low cut-off state. But that is MY pridefulness, not my child’s. I wanted dc to be able to say, “I would have made it anywhere.” Or perhaps it is more fair to say that I wanted to be able to say dc would have made it anywhere.</p>

<p>@Hoggirl My comment that listed the lower cutoff states, I was making an exaggerated point. I apologize you took offense to that. I do not believe that ALL qualifiers from those states are near the cutoff for that state. That’s a crazy assumption.</p>

<p>I do believe that if NMSC used a national cutoff, we’d see a lot more students of the 16,000 semifinalists from DC, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and California than any of the other states. To me, that’s unfair, and was the point I was trying to make. </p>

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<p>Absolutely, as a privately funded, not for profit organization, NMSC can set rules however they want. I would have no problem with fairness if they had their own testing/evaluation process (ala the [thread=859942]Coca-Cola Scholarship[/thread]). By hooking into the PSAT, which nearly all college-bound high school students take, I feel like NMSC has more of an obligation to be fair in their distribution of the scholarships. </p>

<p>If NMSC just determined the corporate scholarships and their own scholarships, and didn’t have the influence over the college scholarship programs that they do, I’d feel less bothered about the fairness issue. Congratulations on your dc’s score and good luck with college applications.</p>

<p>Anyone want to predict whether a 223 in California will make it based on the statistics we know so far? I’m going to ask my principal when I get back to school on Tuesday, but I’m on the edge of my seat with suspense right now!</p>

<p>ILfather: In SAT states, maybe nearly all college-bound high school students take the PSAT. In rural schools in ACT states, like my own, less than 25% take the PSAT. Out of my graduating class of 104, as of now I am one of 2 to take the SAT itself!</p>

<p>@ckfy63a I’d say you are 95% there… Would be a shocker if the CA cutoff was 224… I think 221 is the high water mark in CA to date…</p>

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<p>I agree 100%, @ckfy63a. Congratulations on your high score. Good luck with the college application process.</p>