Anyone have experience or thoughts on where St. Paul’s, NMH and Deerfield are in terms of academic rigour and “scaffolding”? And hours of homework ? I have heard Andover is quite a heavy workload for most…. But I am sure it varies by the student’s educational background and course load. Appreciate any insights!
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I guess I am guilty of this. I thought the OP was trying to rank schools by academic excellence, holding constant athletics, arts, community, etc. That is an exercise in futility.
If instead the goal is to understand which school gives the most homework, etc. that is a different question.
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A different question which is also an exercise in futility
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True!
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My daughter is enjoying her experience at NMH. For context, she’s a very good student but not in the academically elite group (will graduate in May with a 3.6). She reports an average of 3 hours a night, occasionally more. She had a heavy load this past fall, with two classes that required a high volume of daily reading/writing while also directing/rehearsing a play for NMH’s One Act Festival and playing a varsity sport.
Like many BS, there is an emphasis on class participation at NMH and it counts for a specific % of the final grade in many classes.
I can’t speak to the scaffolding question, but the usual student supports are in place and easy to access. My D has used their CASA program to help her think through her longer papers.
NMH students are also required to have a work job for 3 hours each week. For the most part these are assigned at random and can range from easy (study hall monitor) to more difficult (slicing/dicing produce in the kitchen.) My D had the latter in the fall. When she first saw the assignment, she dreaded it, but she actually grew to like it. It gave her a satisfying sense of helping out the community.
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I agree that “rigorous” doesn’t mean a school is better or worse, but a rigorous school does make a school better (or worse) for some kids.
My only experience is with Exeter, so I just wanted to add my (secondhand) experience. My kids are complete opposites as far as personalities go, but both thrived/are thriving in the rigorous environment. Both have been able to get the help they needed, but there were definitely times when they had to really advocate for themselves. However, they do provide one-on-one counseling by request, which one of my kids took advantage of, even during the months they were at home during COVID. Also, I have consistently received emails from the Dean of Student Health and Wellness after my kids had 2+ unexcused absences in a term (I’ve never heard from their advisors about anything unless I reached out to them directly, which I’ve only done when they’ve been physically ill), so the school does provide a little bit of information to parents (but it’s very impersonal).
The bottom line is, there is support, but kids have to be proactive about getting it. It’s not a school for students who aren’t willing to advocate for themselves or who aren’t willing to put in a lot of time outside of the classroom. My kids wanted to go to boarding school to be challenged, and Exeter definitely does that. Prep year was tough, but definitely less rigorous than the next three years, so they do provide some time for adjustment. (Both my kids thought prep year was super hard until they got to their lower year lol.) There have been times when I felt like the school missed the mark with both my kids relating to both physical and mental health (at which point I stepped in as needed), but overall the school has been a blessing and I’d send them again. In fact, my third will start in the fall.
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@yygsdubliner if you are interested in a Deerfield perspective on homework, rigor, grading, etc. do look up posts from @Golfgr8, or better yet, reach out. I think their opinion is worth a read. It was of great help to us.
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Thanks for the suggestion !
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Happy to give an SPS perspective….
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Be prepared at schools like Deerfield if you sailed through advanced level Humanities classes at previous schools with high A’s, you may be surprised with your first B’s all while doing more and better work. But you will end up a better writer and learn a lot.
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Thank you for this thread. My son has revisit days this weekend for one school and another 2 in the upcoming weeks for schools mentioned above. He wants a BS that will challenge him but one that also provides the resources he will need to be his best self. I’m sure all the top BS are rigorous and it will really depend on how much rigor each individual will put on themselves in the end. Sometimes it’s not so much the school rigor as it is the individual student that puts the pressure on themselves to perform well in class or on the athletic field. He expects it to be challenging and he knows he will need to put his best effort each and every day. This is just a start of the many challenges he will face in life. We just want him to be happy learning each and every day.
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deerfield and others always say - we give you placement tests for math/languages are you may end up “repeating” the class again at the BS bc their standards are higher/more rigorous. i can imagine this might end up hurting some kids coming in - as they lose a yr of progression even if they end up as better students or understanding the material better
tradeoff
I’m sure schools will allow kids to move up or down within a couple weeks after school starts. I have heard more down than up. Does moving down hurt their feelings? Probably. Is it better for them? yes.
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Moving up in any school is very hard - moving down is easy! Im sure it is better for them but i think it goes beyond the ego hit
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I have never heard of kids complaining about this. I know kids who needed to be moved into more accelerated classes after school started and kids who needed to be moved out of the most accelerated classes. It is so normal that it is not noteworthy to the kids at all.
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Really? I hear kids (fresh admits in their first semester) complaining about this all the time.
Usually, by the time the 3rd week of class rolls around, they’re glad they were placed in the lower level, or glad to have dropped down…
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As have I. Particularly over the summer before classes begin. Once classes start, their tune changes very quickly.
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@DroidsLookingFor My daughter was one of those who complained when she discovered that being two years ahead in math at our public middle school put her right at typical grade level when she went to BS. Week 1: Mom, this is going to be too easy. (me: fine! take the win!) Week 2: oh it’s picking up. Week 3: Holy cow! I didn’t realize how much I was missing! Week 4: yikes!
On the flip side – another daughter took her French placement test in the summer while we were in France staying at our in-laws, and my French mother-in-law – a retired high school teacher – may have helped a little too much in my opinion. She ended up getting placed into French 3 and despite us feeling like that was too high, school said “let’s try it – it’s easier to go down than up.” Well, she thrived! And now is off next year to study in France for a year with SYA.
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I’m a broken record on this topic and, once again, offer our son’s experience trying to jump ahead in math at Choate. FWIW.
Our son loves math (and has a very mathy job today) and was dying to get to calculus as fast as he could. He took algebra II at our local CC the summer before BS, earned an A, and passed Choate’s placement test for entering the math stream at a higher level, but the math department seriously advised against it as they feel that their algebra II course is foundational for their upper math curriculum. They gave our son the option, but the gravity of their advice to enter at algebra II caused him to do so. He was a bit bored the first few weeks, but as the pace picked up and his teacher began to teach a methodology for analyzing, problem-solving, organizing, presenting, and participating in a Choate math classroom, he did not feel advanced toward the end of the course and was very glad he “repeated.”
I will emphasize: Do not discount the part about learning how to participate in a BS math classroom. You will NOT be memorizing formulas. You will be taught first to clearly understand the problem you are trying to solve. You will learn to think logically about approaches to solving the problem without delving first into any formulaic toolkit. After that, you will learn methods for crafting solutions. You will understand and own how to derive formulas so that you will know not only which to apply but also why, the same way a carpenter knows when to use a hammer over a saw. I remember one Parents Weekend watching three students go to the board and correctly solve the same problem three very different ways. The rest of the class time was spent discussing those various approaches and why each worked. This was completely different from the match-the-equation-pattern-to-the-one-right-formula method I was taught in high school.
It’s far more important that you learn to think like this than at what level math course you start or end. There are no prizes for accelerating in math. You can trust your BS to place you into the stream at the right point and expertly guide your progression from there. But, as noted above, if they do get it wrong, the early shuffle is there to ensure all students land where appropriate.
ETA: When he got to college, West Point’s placement tests put him into a upper-level course they refer to as “Jedi” math. He earned an A+. Choate had prepared him so well for all his college courses. He hit the ground running fast. Your BS students will, too.
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My DD was the opposite with her math placement. She is really good at math and often knows how to get answers and solve things just naturally without being taught. During Covid she was in an online charter in AP Calc. AB. The class met virtually one day a week and she pretty much taught it to herself and was miserable. She tested into AP Calc. BC at Deerfield to her surprise because she was not confident at all. Her advisor said it was not common to test into that class. She wanted to drop it after the first day because she immediately felt she was not prepared. She insisted on dropping the class. She was able to convince them to not make her take math last year. This year she is coasting through AP stats and loves it and plans to major in math. If she had struggled through a math class last year that she didn’t feel ready for, she probably would not be so confident and ready to major in math. She was just accepted to an SLAC that had an 11% acceptance rate last year so dropping down a level, did not hurt her in any way in college acceptances.
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