<p>And by the way, I have no problem with homosexuals. Not all religious people are the same. I would like to think that even if my family weren’t religious we might still have enough compassion to donate a lot of money.</p>
<p>@JHS Thanks :)</p>
<p>@ bzva74
Compassion is a part of my connection to God. I feel like you aren’t even trying to understand my point of view. Seeing from someone else’s perspective is a part of learning, even if you disagree.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>He or she wasn’t criticizing your practices.</p>
<p>@Nikkor50mm (S)He was suggesting that I consider diminishing or eliminating my spending on charity. The way he or she phrased it showed an absence of malice towards my lifestyle while still offering constructive criticism. I respect his/her comment immensely.</p>
<p>I also appreciated your comment; however, my faith does not preclude me from integrating in secular society. Jesus was a proponent of the existence of secular aspects of life (give unto Caesar).</p>
<p>Sorry, another triple post 
I do however, try to make faith a part of everything I do (although, of course, I fail miserably like most people…it’s a process)</p>
<p>I tried to hard to stay out of this debate but it kept going yellow and well… read the title.</p>
<p>1) Giving is not a necessity. It just is not. You COULD live without it ergo it is a want not a need. Giving for your family is just like buying nice cars and houses for others. It is a way to make you feel warm and happy inside. I agree that it is a far better way to get that happy feeling than buying a car, but just like buying a car it is not a necessity. (I am 100% sure that this analogy will get MASSIVE abuse but it is true. Note that I am not judging you or implying that this devalues your giving - Not at all. Just explaining why it is not a necessity.)</p>
<p>2) ““It would be hypocrisy to have done this all my life and then stop just because I hit some hard times.”” Well when in doubt I would think that you would follow the example of your church (It sounds like you are Christian but am unsure what denomination so I will use Catholicism because it is the most common). Consider the celibacy of the priesthood - there is significant evidence to suggest that that was only decided upon because the church had “hit some hard times” and was unable to continue subsidising the large families of its priests. Food for thought…</p>
<p>3) Note that the 10% recommended tithing figure given is also fairly arbitrary (why 10%? is that justified anywhere?) - further evidence that this is not a necessity but a choice.</p>
<p>4) Consider this practically and logically (now for a cheap shot, sorry) not something religious people like to do but: Consider giving 20 000 less to charity for 4 years and then you can give a little more later? Like taking a loan from your charities except that they will not come and take your house if you for some reason cannot pay.</p>
<p>5) You claim throughout that you are not trying to appear ““high and mighty”” but these one liners do not help your cause mate (I have tried to include context, and things in brackets are my comments):</p>
<p>I am not that generous (working on it). (cringe)
We mostly spend it on things like orphans in Bulgaria, building wells in Africa, ect. (Thanks for telling us, we are now on your side because you mentioned orphans and Africa)
I am committed to learning about other cultures and religions in order to foster peace, tolerance, understanding, and most importantly the EXCHANGE OF IDEAS. (You have not been exchanging anything! You have been defending an indefensible position - giving is not needed)
A huge part of my faith is LOVE, which is why my family donates and why I enjoy spending time around people who are different from me. (capitalised LOVE, ftw)
I prioritize PEOPLE. (cringe)
Seeing from someone else’s perspective is a part of learning, even if you disagree. (condescension anyone?)</p>
<p>So I have TRIED to present a reasonable case as to why I believe you position is ridiculous. Unfortunately it may have turned into a attack in the middle somewhere… </p>
<p>But, to sum up, what you are arguing is that Yale must subsidise your education so that you can continue with your standard of living. There are people who actually NEED the money you so crave, people who COULD NOT ATTEND YALE WITHOUT IT. If you do not get any aid you would not attend Yale because your parents CHOSE not to make a sacrifice.</p>
<p>I do hope that you can attend Yale either way because it is a great opportunity. As an atheist seeing a talented person not get the opportunities they deserve because of religion really frustrates me. Of course it is your life so live it as you must.</p>
<p>"Unfortunately it may have turned into a attack in the middle somewhere… "
Yes, it did. I appreciate your honesty lol 
Because I cannot resist refuting even the personal attacks (I’m sure you understand), here I go with those first to get the unpleasant parts out of the way so we can get on to the REAL debate.</p>
<p>“(Thanks for telling us, we are now on your side because you mentioned orphans and Africa)”
I only mentioned that to dispel the misconception that I was giving money to a church so it could build a recreational center for other rich kids. Others had argued that giving to the church was a scam/waste.</p>
<p>“I am not that generous (working on it). (cringe)”
I’m just being honest, sorry 
I am not much of a people person because of some hard stuff that happened (not an excuse, just an explanation) that I guess I am still working on dealing with. I used to be really compassionate as a kid. I’m sure that you would not argue against self-improvement…Yale is a part of that journey for me. I feel like a great education is also something God wants for me (in addition to integrity/compassion), whether it is at Yale or elsewhere. God gave us brains; I’m sure he wants us to use them. I am open to criticism, though, as long as it is not too insulting and meant in a constructive manner. Your comment in parentheses did not help me understand why you didn’t like this comment.</p>
<p>“A huge part of my faith is LOVE, which is why my family donates and why I enjoy spending time around people who are different from me. (capitalised LOVE, ftw)
I prioritize PEOPLE. (cringe)”</p>
<p>Same as above…</p>
<p>“I am committed to learning about other cultures and religions in order to foster peace, tolerance, understanding, and most importantly the EXCHANGE OF IDEAS. (You have not been exchanging anything! You have been defending an indefensible position - giving is not needed)”
I am not sure how my position is indefensible…in your opinion, it may be weak, but from your other posts I doubt you are so close minded as to say that anyone’s idea has no merit, at least when it comes to charity…This comment was not meant to be applied to this argument specifically, but rather to my wish to go to Yale despite its “secular” nature. I did not mean this thread to be an argument; I just wanted some advice/info.</p>
<p>Seeing from someone else’s perspective is a part of learning, even if you disagree. (condescension anyone?)
Do you not agree with this statement? You have not been so “un-condescending” either…just look at number 5 of your argument, which is basically a text-book ad-hominem attack…</p>
<p>Now, that’s finished…can we keep the rest of this pleasant please? I wish I could just end the argument, but I really can’t resist…will argue your legitimate points later…</p>
<p>Also, my position is not “ridiculous.” Maybe mistaken is what you were going for? It hardly becomes an educated person to make such emotionally charged personal attacks in a religious debate.</p>
<p>Idiosyncra3y is my hero.</p>
<p>As for practical use, I’m happy that you donate unicorns and pots of gold to starving african orphans or w/e. But 15-20% of your income? What is that, 50k? In fact, it’d be better if you just bought a new car or something like that. Spend the money in America and save our economy, lol. I’m sorry, I’ve just been watching so much Fox News lately that I got the impression that rich people spend money, so we shouldnt tax them. Meanwhile immigrants send money to Mexico, so we should kick them out. Ends up the rich are sending money abroad? *** my world has been turned upside down.</p>
<p>You can certainly go without giving charity for a few years.</p>
<p>Oh, and tithing isnt required.
[TITHING</a> - Tithe of Money NOT REQUIRED](<a href=“http://www.bibleinsight.com/tithing.html]TITHING”>TITHING - Tithe of Money NOT REQUIRED)</p>
<p>Nobody is insulting your religion. Practice whatever you want. But Yale does not need to pay for your college because you want to spend your own.
How is tithing a more important family expense than a lake house? Yet your lake house will not be exempt from calculating Financial aid, not at all.</p>
<p>No, chaos, your position is ridiculous. Your family wants Yale to pay for your education even though you very well are able to. That’s ridiculous.</p>
<p>And he isnt being closed-minded at all. You are. You refuse to change your position even though every single person who has posted on this thread disagrees with you (or are saying “not so harsh, guys”).</p>
<p>^(x5)kudos.
Also, OP, if you take the definition of “offensive” to be “causing resentful displeasure,” then maybe so, but offensive words in that respect need to be said. Honestly, I think anything to the degree of “stop donating” is going to make you resentful, but I don’t think that warrants us to hold our breath.
Most of us are not degrading you personally. We just think you need to realize that tithing is not necessary-- this <em>certainly</em> seems to be a case of having your cake and eating it, too. You may, indeed, need to choose between the two. Going to Yale is a privilege, and you’ve certainly earned that. I, too, hope that you aren’t ultimately hindered from joining the class of '15.</p>
<p>edit: woah, lots of posts in front of me</p>
<p>
There’s the condescension he’s talking about.</p>
<p>And bzva74, I do agree, you’re being rather insulting. Sure, you may think that it’s all a bunch of unicorns or whatnot, but those “unicorns” are a big, essential part of the OP’s life, and phrasing it that way simply makes you look like a d**che.</p>
<p>I will save number 1 for last; it is your most convincing and imo strongest argument.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I do not believe that this example is relevant. First of all, I am not Catholic…I really have no strong denominational ties. Tradition is not what I tend to use first. I go off of logic, then maybe tradition. Logically, charitable contributions hold up my value of compassion. Plus, ending charity because I want an expensive education is hypocritical. Cutting down on family size (in this example, completely) is not hypocritical because not having children is not morally wrong (according to Christianity). Not helping people is wrong. The so-called arbitrary nature of the figure has nothing to do with whether the act of giving itself is not necessary, but rather the amount…however, that figure is what is given by the Bible, and is therefore a religious necessity for my parents who are a bit more traditional than I am. I would be willing to go more into depth about the exact amount, but they are a bit more resistant to change. </p></li>
<li><p>I completely agree that it seems arbitrary. I think it is a reasonable figure, though. My family felt led to give more because we have seen poverty and misfortune first hand, during my parents’ childhood and through mission trips (not forcing our beliefs, just helping build stuff, etc.).</p></li>
<li><p>Not a cheap shot at all! This suggestion is reasonable, logical, and convincing…I do not think it would be right to do, but I will have to consider it nevertheless. Some money my parents give is a responsibility, though. We sponsor three kids overseas, so we can’t just stop giving money to them. That would be awful…I tend to think that taking a “loan” would be almost outside my authority when it comes to religious commandments…</p></li>
</ol>
<p>To conclude, I must address this comment:
“There are people who actually NEED the money you so crave, people who COULD NOT ATTEND YALE WITHOUT IT.”
I give to the sorts of people who really need it…I give so that their financial burden is lessened. All I ask is that the part of our income that we give away should be deducted from the income that Yale considers us to have, because it is not available to me. My parents would never agree to diminish our contributions to charity, even if I wanted them to do so. My parents feel that it is required that they give this much money due to religious reasons. I just really want to go to Yale!!!</p>
<p>Wait, I’m close minded because I don’t just automatically change my beliefs because some people disagree with me? That seems entirely inaccurate. Being close-minded is acting disrespectfully, i.e. calling charity “giving unicorns.”</p>
<p>Besides, it’s called BALANCE. We spend money and help the economy; but we don’t leave other people high and dry just because they don’t live here. Plus, we give to less fortunate people in the states too, investing in their education; thus, we DO help the economy.</p>
<p>@ keellota We are all being very condescending in this argument. It is an unfortunate byproduct of personal attacks being responded to with more personal attacks. I only meant to say that I don’t think that it is characteristic of Idiosyncra3y because in most of his posts he seems like a nice person.</p>
<p>@bzva74
Part of the reason most disagree is probably self-selection. The people who get riled up about the “ridiculousness” of religion are more likely to post. Also, there have been many people in the earlier pages of the thread who partially or mostly agreed with me.</p>
<p>Also, my family believes that tithing IS necessary. Some random link is not going to convince me otherwise, especially when the site is mainly criticizing giving to a church. We mainly give directly to charities.</p>
<p>I do not feel superior to you, I don’t even know you. You haven’t responded to my posts beyond a vague reference to all of us being condescending. I’m not personally attacking you. In my last post, I simply pointed out an example of the condescension that Idiosyncra3y was talking about.</p>