3/2 Engineering Programs

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My daughter is a HS junior and is interested in a couple of schools that have 3/2 dual degree engineering programs and/or 4/2 bachelors/masters degreee engineering; however, one concern her mother and I have is how difficult it is to actually go through with leaving after 3 years when all of your friends are staying on for their senior year. My cousin's daughter was looking at something similar at Fordham but talked to a student in the program who brought that up as a problem -- that he didn't want to leave after his 3rd year. </p>

<p>Are there any current students or graduates or parents with experience in these sort of programs who can comment? </p>

<p>--K9Leader</p>

2

<p>My son thinks he wants to study engineering, so we will not look at any colleges that do not offer engineering. I want him to have a nice four-year college experience. A few kids at my liberal arts undergrad college had intended to do the 3-2 engineering deal but ended up sticking around to graduate with the rest of us; they did physics majors.</p>

3

<p>Reed has one..........</p>

4

<p>Bard has one with Dartmouth, Columbia, and WashU. I really enjoy the math department here, they are all exceptionally passionate and intelligent (My Calc III teacher loves math so much that when he proposed to his wife, he cut out the inside of a Calculus book and put the ring inside. He gave her the book and told her he wouldn't be with her any longer unless she learned some Calculus...and he wasn't kidding. That's passion.) Also, my First-Year Seminar teacher is one of the main physics teachers, and he's the most intelligent man I've ever met. He's a particle physicist and has been in love with physics since he was in elementary school. If you want really passionate teachers, I'd definitely say come to Bard. Plus, they are pushing the sciences even more, so there's alot of scholarship money for highly talented science students.</p>

5

<p>If I remember correctly Harvey Mudd has a 3+2 with Claremont McKenna. It might have also had one with CalTech...</p>

6

<p>^ Caltech has 3/2 programs with the following top LACs:</p>

<p>Bowdoin College (ME)
Bryn Mawr College (PA)
Grinnell College (IA)
Haverford College (PA)
Mt. Holyoke College (MA)
Oberlin College (OH)
Occidental College (CA)
Ohio Wesleyan University (OH)
Pomona College (CA)
Reed College (OR)
Spelman College (GA)
Wesleyan University (CT)
Whitman College (WA) </p>

<p>CMC isn't on the list...only Pomona.</p>

<p>Caltech</a> Undergraduate Admissions: 3/2 Applicants</p>

7

<p>Emory has a 3+2 program with GA Tech. My best friend did it and loved it. She didn't have a hard time "leaving," probably helped by the fact that the two schools are in the same city. The first year, she was able to socialize with her Emory friends just as much as before, while making friends at Tech. The second year, her Emory classmates had graduated and scattered, but between new friends and the high level engineering classes she had plenty to do.</p>

8

<p>Staying in the same city sounds like a good idea.</p>

9

<p>We toured both Emory and Georgia Tech. She didn't care for Emory, Georgia Tech was nicer than we had thought it would be but she commented that it was "too techy." She also thought Atlanta was too far from home. We'll see - a lot depends on what her thinking is by application time. Georgia Tech is still on the list, although mostly at our request. She also liked Wake Forest and they have both a 3/2 and a 4/2. And, we are in Delaware, so University of Delaware is in-state tuition and a very good engineering school - just have to get daughter over the "too close to home" issue (we live five minutes from campus).</p>

<p>K9Leader</p>

10

<p>Why would anyone want to spend an extra year in college for an undergraduate engineering degree (ok, so it's a dual degree)? What are the benefits careerwise... assuming you want to work in the engineering field?</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Why would anyone want to spend an extra year in college for an undergraduate engineering degree (ok, so it's a dual degree)? What are the benefits careerwise... assuming you want to work in the engineering field?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Like most 17 year olds, my D is not 100% sure what she wants to do or study, and, of course, many of those who are 100% sure at 17 change their minds by the time they are 18, and again by 20. She is interested in communications/journalism (loves working on the school paper), and likes what Elon offers in that area. She is very strong in math and science, likes physics, likes creating things, solving problems, and putting things together and seeing them work, therefore, the possibility of engineering. But she's not sure she wants to commit to a real tech engineering school (although she likes RPI), so a 3/2 program might be a good start for her. It would allow her to explore engineering without committing herself to a school that would offer no or few options if she finds engineering is not for her. While a larger school would offer this as well (such as U Delaware, which is in-state for us, or Virginia Tech or U Maryland) she doesn't want a school that large, preferring an enrollment in the 4,000 - 8,000 range.</p>

<p>When we visited Elon, we did talk with an admissions officer about the possibility of double-majoring in the engineering and communications, acknowledging that it would probably mean at least four years at Elon instead of three. It also seems that a "create your own" 4/2 program, perhaps a BS in physics then an MS in engineering, might be a possibility.</p>

<p>She is signed up for a women in engineering summer program at the University of Maryland, so may have a better idea whether she wants to go the engineering route and, if so, what type of engineering (she's talked about environmental or electrical/alternative energy). So it is possible she will want a more hard core engineering program, so RPI, U Delaware, or Georgia Tech might be back on the list. </p>

<p>Also, she really liked Elon head and shoulders above any other school she has seen, so this would be the way she could go to the school that really spoke to her and still pursue engineering. My wife and I measure our childrens' interest on colleges by the "post-tour bookstore" meter. At the other schools we have visited with her (Dickinson, Drexel, Yale, Trinity (CT), RPI, Duke, Wake Forest, Emory, Georgia Tech) she had no interest in t-shirts, sweatshirts, hats, pennants, etc. At Elon, she went for the t-shirt and the hoodie sweatshirt, and has worn them frequently in the month since our visit.</p>

<p>--K9Leader</p>

12

<p>I can think of several non-techie schools in that size range with excellent engineering programs, e.g.,</p>

<p>Princeton, Columbia, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, Rice, Northwestern ... and Cornell (if not too large).</p>

13

<p>Pomona has one with Caltech</p>

14

<p>CMC does have one with Harvey Mudd, which earns you a BA in Economics (3 years) and a BS in Engineering (2 years). This would be a great combination for employers, I would think, and she wouldn't have to leave her friends because the campuses are so close!</p>

15

<p>Well, you can be an engineering student and take as many Econ courses as you want and show that in your resume ... you don't really need another bachelor degree in Econ. You can also earn a double major in engineering and economics at one university in four years with a bit more work.</p>

16

<p>No employer is going to pay you more because you have a dual degree...especially for the entry-level jobs out of college, employers will either value you for your engineering/technical skills or your business/finance/accounting skills. Sure, it's nice to have both skill sets but you probably won't see a big return on your investment in terms of starting salary after graduation.</p>

<p>IMO, it would be better to concentrate on an undergrad engineering degree while taking some econ/business electives, work for a few years and then pursue an MBA.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
I can think of several non-techie schools in that size range with excellent engineering programs, e.g.,</p>

<p>Princeton, Columbia, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, Rice, Northwestern ... and Cornell (if not too large).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of that list, Carnegie Mellon is on her list to look at. She doesn't want to go that far North (so Tufts and anything in Boston is out), doesn't want to go that far (Northwestern, Rice - out), absolutely does not want urban (so long Columbia) and is determined not to fall into the Ivy League status symbol vortex (no way, Princeton). She watched her older brother and his friends and other kids from their high school (a very highly ranked and successful science and math oriented charter school) go through the Ivy League gauntlet with there being almost no rhyme or reason why and where some got in, why and where others didn't, why some got waitlisted here and not there, etc. Her brother figured out between the time he applied (Princeton and Penn) and when decisions would come out that he probably wasn't getting in, despite being squarely in the middle 50% on everything. By the time he had to choose, he had decided on either William & Mary or Ithaca, partly because they were better fits and he genuinely liked them better and partly because he knew they really wanted him while to Princeton and Penn he was just another good student they could reject and partly because he had already written the Ivies off as too unlikely and too costly. As have many people on these boards, he found that where he ended up was the best place for him. I sit here today waiting for his return on the 3:30 train from his sophomore year at W&M. </p>

<p>My daughter is even less concerned with prestige and how it will look to others than was her brother. In fact, she likes the idea of up-and-coming schools offering good solid educations and programs but that fly under the radar of the sheeple who blindly worship the Ivy League and the rest of the USNWR Top 25 (sorry if that is a little harsh, but there are so many on CC who have drunk that Kool-Aid that I get to exasperated ranting sometimes). Thus, Elon impressed her (and her mother and I) much more than Duke & Emory. She is also interested in The College of New Jersey (for engineering), which we will tour as soon as they start up tours again in June, and Ithaca College, which was her brother's very, very close #2 choice when he was choosing three years ago (but only if she goes the communications/journalism route). Probably will also look at Villanova. Seriously, a lot of it depends on her experiences this summer at the U Maryland summer engineering program and whether that is the direction she wants to go. She may be in a totally different place by August. </p>

<p>K9Leader</p>

18

<p>How can I learn about the 3/2 acceptance statistics, i.e. what percentage of the students who started an LAC with the intent, but did not get accepted?</p>

<p>For a student who is looking for an engineering degree at the end, getting a rejection after 3 years at a LAC would be worse that “holding the bag”</p>

19

<p>Schools that have such program ought to have some faculty member who is nominally the point person for it there. find that person, and ask them how many people from their school have actually completed such program in teh last four years.</p>

<p>I imagine the number is miniscule in most cases.</p>

<p>You’re supposed to spend 3 years first at a school which has no faculty, other students, or courses relating to engineering, then somehow, regardless of this lack of information or reinforcement, you are supposed to be able to intelligently decide what you want to study within engineering. Then you are supposed to completely disrupt your living situation and personal relationships to go study at some other college.</p>

<p>My opinion is that this is primarily a marketing ploy by schools to get applicants who otherwise would not apply because the schools don’t have their prospective major. Some people actually make it through, but relatively few I’m guessing. But the proportions may vary by school, so individual investigation would be wise.</p>

<p>Suggest also investigate the terms under whch the engineering schools accept the 2nd degree students: automatic based on certain grades at first school, or case-by-case via re-application, which is almost no different than applying as a transfer applicant.</p>

20

<p>My general impression of 3/2 engineering programs is:</p>

<p>(1) there is far more interest in 3/2 programs among prospective LAC students than there is among actual LAC students. In practice, participation rates in 3/2 programs are often miniscule, as suggested above. You may find schools where no one has actually used the program in years. </p>

<p>(2) the partner engineering schools are generally favorably disposed to accept 3/2 candidates from LACs. It’s not a big risk for them, because students who are prepared to leave their LACs early for an engineering program are generally (1) few in number, (2) strong performers in math and physical sciences, and (3) highly motivated to study engineering. It’s not a path that is chosen casually.</p>

<p>(3) LACs commonly have an engineering advisor somewhere, most often in the physics dept., who can provide more info about the use (or non-use) of the 3/2 program at a particular school.</p>