<p>Hi, I am definitely going to apply for Harvard, but first I would like to know whether it is worth the shot. From what I hear, 3.57 isn't even close to getting in unless I have some other credentials. As of now, here is my general status:</p>
<p>3.57 GPA (3.11 Freshman Year, 3.76 Sophomore Year, 3.84 Junior Year)
2120 on the official SAT
One AP course in Sophomore year, two in Junior year, three/four in Senior year
Leader of High School Model United Nations team (Junior and Senior year)
Editor for School Newspaper (Senior year)
A terrible class ranking (mostly because no one screwed up Freshman year as much as I did) (about 40% of my school has a GPA greater than 3.5, but this could be because my school is supposedly one of the best in my region)
Note: My school does not weight honors or AP courses. A 4.0 in Extended Algebra and a 4.0 in AP Calculus BC is still both the same.</p>
<p>In general, how do you think Harvard's admissions office will make of this? I know my freshman GPA really sucks and I only have two leadership positions for senior year, but is there anything else in there that would attract them? Btw, I have Asperger's Syndrome (but no one seems to believe me, I assume that's a good sign) and I will probably put that on my college essay, as if it will make a difference. Will it?</p>
<p>There’s nothing about your profile that appears to be a “wow” that would get you past the first round of reviews. A 3.57 GPA sinks you assuredly. Be honest with yourself: even in your HS, how many people are academically more qualified than you? Really? Use the $80 and take your parents out to dinner instead.</p>
<p>I’m sure you’ll do fine at whatever college you attend, but to ask for a slot at one of the lowest admit rate colleges extant goes beyond reason.</p>
<p>Harvard accepts 6 students out of every 100 applications it receives. With those kind of odds, many valedictorians with 4.0 unweighted GPA’s and 2400 SAT’s are rejected. Rather than ask strangers “is Harvard possible”, you should be asking yourself: What unique talents and abilities can I bring to Harvard? What else, besides my 3.57 GPA, 2120 SAT’s and great extracurriculars, will make my application standout from the crowd? What separates me from the 35,000 other students who are applying? When you have honestly answered those questions, you will know if Harvard is possible.</p>
<p>There are no statistics outside of the office available. Stanford however does publish in depth stats on the applicant pool and the class. Stanford also has a very similar (although slightly different) class to Harvard, and near identical class sizes and admit rates (1600 / 6.x%). In the under top 20% rank and under 3.5 range, under 50 are admitted to the class. At Harvard, 5-20 recruits have stats like this, so lets assume under 20. If you want to further speculate, lets say 10 of those are internationals with funny grading systems. 10 out of 1600 is five eights of 1 % of the class, and is 0.0003% of the admit pool. The only way to get into this segment is to have every single other part of your application in ‘perfect’ territory. You will also probably have to have decent test scores, and you do (although still in the middle 50%). </p>
<p>Speculating off of what you said, I really don’t think you know what it takes to get into this segment frankly. You’d need an admission officer writing the rest of your application frankly to have a very solid chance. What’s important is that you have apps at other schools. Even if you like Harvard at first thought, you absolutely cannot claim that it is your dream, favorite or best school without getting on campus and knowing what it’s like underneath the exterior. </p>
<p>Don’t ask yourself if you can get into Harvard, but rather ‘will I get into at least one decent school outside of community college?’</p>
<p>A relatively high GPA senior year (3.9+) would improve your chances.
There is a large discrepancy between your freshman-year grades and those of your sophmore and junior years (especially when you take into account course rigor). A higher senior year GPA would make your freshman year grades look like outliers (as If you had a bad year). I’m guessing that college would pay more attention to the potential that a student had (hence SuperScoring). Also, if your a junior you would need to get your SAT scores up to a 2200+ (average score @ Harvard: 2250; it’s a bit higher if your take out Legacies, Athletes, and AA students)</p>
<p>What if you have a low GPA (maybe a little higher than 3.65) and a decent ACT (33, which according to some chart is about a 2190)? Yet you have “harvard-level” extracurricular. By that I mean, the kid who generally get into Harvard are really distinguished in what ever they are passionate about. They have state level and national level (and sometimes international level)</p>
<p>What if someone has the above academic stats but for instance:
Founded their non-profit - raised thousands of dollars
Did graduate level science research and becoming a physician is the primary interest. Founded a club relating to their science interest.<br>
Top in the state in a competition (for instance, DECA, Debate, JCL, Acadec,etc.) and leadership. Top in country also for the same competition. Lots of awards from this.
Top in another activity in the state along with leadership and years of involvement.
Tons and tons of awards for community service and academics.
Serve on a national council.
Won many scholarships including big ones (e.g. Coca Cola, ELKS, Questbridge, etc.)
Amazing experiences during high school to talk about in essay; good writer.
Not a URM but first generation, low-income, come from bad neighborhood (something to talk about in essays)<br>
Amazing recommendations from closer teacher/counselor. </p>
<p>On top of all that, there is a reason the student’s GPA is such, as in, it would be a little higher. </p>
<p>Does the above student then stand a chance? I really think, aside from the GPA, this is exactly what schools like Harvard (which really represents the tree of Ivies) are looking for. The student is obviously interested and passionate about the things he or she does and has awards and leadership positions in whatever 3-4 things he is interested in. Does this make up for GPA? I figure most kids with this type of activities would have high GPA’s but what happens in this case? Is it overlooked?</p>
<p>OP- don’t like being the bearer of bad news, but your chances are EXTREMELY slim. 4.0 2400s get rejected…</p>
<p>Your upward gpa trend is good, but really what most schools look at more than gpa is class rank. You want to be the top 10%. The few who do get in with a 3.57 range gpa and poor class rank are those who have hooks. Athletes, musicians, or people with outstanding ECs are the ones who get in with poor class rank. Your ECs are fairly generic and not outstanding for a school like Harvard. You also want a 2250+ on the SAT.</p>
<p>Lagging, sorry to poke your bubble, but you’re wrong. First, saying 4.0/2400 get rejected is NOT a reason why he can’t get in. If anything, it means that most have near zero idea of what officers are really looking for and how procedure works.</p>
<p>Secondly, Harvard does NOT look at class rank whatsoever. Val might be nice, but beyond that, no.</p>
<p>Last, your comment on 2250 seems out of the blue. Really a 2000+ is whats needed before it gets real difficult. Almost no one is admitted under 2000, recruited or not.</p>
<p>@GordonTheGekko- First off, chill out man. But to your first point, saying 4.0/2400s get rejected is basically saying that perfect academics only get you so far. You need good academics and something more. That point I made was just a way of pointing out that OP is not academically as qualified as many other applicants.</p>
<p>Secondly, getting a 3.5 at a very difficult school where a 3.5 is in the top 10% is way different than getting a 3.5 and being in the top 40%. Harvard will know the academic difficulty of your school. Whether they get a particular percentage of rank or not, they will care how you compare to others from your school who apply. Saying that it doesn’t matter if you’re #1 or #50 is a false idea. Rank matters. </p>
<p>Lastly, if you applied to any Ivy level schools, you probably would have heard the common idea that a 2250+ is ideal to be in the mid-range for those schools. By no means do you NEED a 2250+, but it would be ideal. A 2000 will not be that helpful unless you have a hook. It’s not even mid-range. Those admitted with less than a 2000 have something really unique/outstanding about them. It all depends on other factors for admissions.</p>
<p>Lagging, you don’t have the slightest wind of how admissions works, so stop walking around CC with a Dr. Expert badge on telling people they can’t get in.</p>
<p>Harvard does not consider rank. This is a fact. They judge transcript based on the school consoler input and the school.</p>
<p>What have you done to be admitted to Harvard or et all? If not, what are you doing handing out advice with such certainty? Others like Gibby and T26 have reason to so kindly contribute to the cc community.</p>
<p>Class rank may not matter so much as ranking among applicants of the same school (i.e. feeder schools). In that case, college would recalculate the applicant’s GPA and they can be compared that way (IF they were to be compared). There are also the common benchmarks (top 10%, top 25%) that colleges would most likely use. </p>
<p>Also, a 2000 at a school like Harvard (where the average score is a 2250) won’t cut it, unless you have a hook (i.e. Legacy, Athelete, and/or URM).</p>
<p>the fact is that no one really knows what an admin. counselor really wants to see in an applicant. 2 kids my sons year were admitted to Harvard, my son being one of them. both are great students, but both very different type of students.</p>
<p>Gordon- no need to be so antagonistic. Obviously I’m not an expert, but I’m offering my advice to the OP based on what I’ve been told/observed. You are doing the same. Note I didn’t tell the OP that he wouldn’t get in like you said, just that he had slim chances. </p>
<p>You implying that only “experts” have something to contribute is honestly IMO fairly narrow-minded. As far as what I’ve done to be admitted to Harvard, well nothing. In fact I didn’t even send in my app after being accepted into my top choice, Stanford, early. My personal achievements have nothing to do with my ability to offer a sound opinion, and the fact that you place different value on my words based on my “Harvard status” is frankly over judgmental and I find it quite rude. </p>
<p>Class rank does matter, maybe not in the way you’re thinking. If OP’s school has 20 kids apply to Harvard and 15 of those have equivalent test scores and a better gpa, then Harvard will be less likely to accept OP. OP will not match up RANK wise to the others. How ECs and other stuff like that affect chances could change admissions, but assuming those are all equal enough, class rank will matter. </p>
<p>CC is a place for people to get advice, offer opinions, and share thoughts. I’m not an expert but that in no way means I should not offer my honest opinion.</p>
<p>I do not believe Gordon is actually Harvard-affiliated or an expert himself, either. And yes, rank matters, even if the official number goes unreported.</p>
<p>Lagging, didn’t really read your post, but biasness, pulling facts out of the blue and randomly slamming an anoymous’ persons hopes (the OP) on mostly baseless info is not called for… that’s what I’m objecting to, nothing more, and nothing to rebut. If you’re a little more sensative, none of this will really matter…just imo. :)</p>
<p>exul, I don’t believe you’re 2014. Not really, but it’s so stupid to read posts by attitudes like you becasue you will randomly say rank does matter when it’s a fact that rank is not considered. Val is good, and which school matters. Not rank! I have a link for you this time… be sure to respond about how you meant to say ‘rank doesn’t matter itself, just the ranking against other students and the school… duh!’ [Harvard</a> College Admissions Information - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=444]Harvard”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=444)</p>
<p>Move on with the discussion, this does not matter to me or especially the op…</p>
<p>Hi Gordon,
I’m just curious. Are you Harvard-affiliated or happening to hear somewhere from the admission offices? Please don’t feel pressured to answer if you don’t feel comfortable, but I’m very much interested to hear.</p>
<p>Gecko- Honestly I find it hard to take your post seriously when you’re replying to mine that you “didn’t really read.” I was not randomly slamming someone’s hopes, as I said TWICE to you, I just said that realistically OP had slim chances. Harvard has about a 7% acceptance rate, you have to be pretty outstanding to get accepted.</p>
<p>Okay, lets settle this, rank does matter and here’s proof.</p>
<p>“Top 10% of high school students: 95%”- weird coincidence? I think not. With a school that accepts so few applicants, don’t count on being the 5% that is not the top of the class. That 5% is why OP’s chances are slim and not none.</p>
<p>Also, my “facts out of the blue” are actually pretty sound.<br>
“SAT score (25/75 percentile): 2080-2370”
Basically if someone has a 2000 like you said, they would be in the bottom quartile of admissions. You do not want to be there. You also have to consider that this number includes athletes, people with outstanding ECs, URMs, etc. Basically, people with other strong parts of their applications are sometimes allowed lower test scores. Therefore you want above the mid range (50 percentile) of these numbers. Thus a 2250 is commonly agreed upon as a good mark to get you in range. </p>
<p>If you think there’s a flaw in my points/the statistics I have given you, please let me know. But you really should read my posts before arguing with them</p>