<p>"Blink, I think someone famous said judge people by the content of the character instead of the color of their skin :-P. I think we know how people on CC judge you." Quote from Risingsun</p>
<p>Exactly, so why do URM's get an advantage over similarly qualified whites or asians based on their skin?</p>
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Plus, as far as I know, India isn't even one of the great ancient civilizations, I doubt that they would have the minds and mental foundation to create something as sophisticated as mathematics
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<p>Umm where exactly do you get that information from risingsun? Even though our discussion is kind of off topic, heres a link you might want to check out..</p>
<p>Talk about ignorance.. Follow that link and you should find out about indian mathemeticians.. Just so you know.. these indians who "dont have the mental foundation to create something as sophisticated as mathematics" are the ones who invented the number 0, and the basis for the entire foundation of mathematics.. Like i said, follow the link and try researching once in a while..</p>
<p>P.S. Blink/Blinc sounds like a retard..</p>
<p>Jsut another random link i came across...</p>
<p>Still think indians didnt really know much about mathematics?</p>
<p>Why Blinc are you talking about individuals when as a group African AMericans score 200 points lower on the SAT than whites. There must be a problem if that is the case. Sure there are a couple of blacks who score high and whites who score low but the argument is over why as a group do African AMericans score lower than whites even with the same economic upbringing.</p>
<p>You talk as if all blacks are identical clones with the same DNA. There is NO gene that dictates ability to take standardized tests. Stop looking at it as a black problem. Look at it as YOUR problem. Maybe YOU don't read enough. Maybe YOU get too anxious when testing. Maybe YOU have an attention deficit. </p>
<p>You are climbing a slippery slope when you ask why BLACKS test poorly. The simple answer would be to simply say that Blacks are stupid. And you being black must be stupid. And stupid people do poorly on tests. But that is obviously not the case in your situation. The more politically correct answer is that the white man is rigging the tests so that blacks perform poorly. So give them extra points to compensate. And then "wink wink" we are leveling the plaiyng field. </p>
<p>Find out where YOU need improvement. Work on it. And results will come.</p>
<p>"Why Blinc are you talking about individuals when as a group African AMericans score 200 points lower on the SAT than whites. There must be a problem if that is the case."
"You are climbing a slippery slope when you ask why BLACKS test poorly. The simple answer would be to simply say that Blacks are stupid. And you being black must be stupid. And stupid people do poorly on tests. But that is obviously not the case in your situation. The more politically correct answer is that the white man is rigging the tests so that blacks perform poorly. So give them extra points to compensate. And then "wink wink" we are leveling the plaiyng field."
i would say that the black community is inherently disadvantaged not because of genetics or test-rigging, but because they are, as a community, poorer, go to worse school districts (and thus receive a worse education), and have fewer test-prep opportunities (because they are poorer)
however, i agree with blinc in that if your personal test scores suck, it is your problem alone and you have nobody else to blame</p>
<p>I have not blamed anyone. I would just like to know why is it that African Americans score lower than any other group on these test. Dont answer me with raising my individual score. I know what I need to do so dont talk about individuals. You are avoiding the question. There must be some reason why African Americans with the same social status or even a little bit better score worse than thier white counterparts. </p>
<p>Yeah I know there are single people who score really high or really low but why as a group do African Americans score lower.</p>
<p>i just answered you; you just failed to read it
"i would say that the black community is inherently disadvantaged not because of genetics or test-rigging, but because they are, as a community, poorer, go to worse school districts (and thus receive a worse education), and have fewer test-prep opportunities (because they are poorer)"</p>
<p>Watercannon:</p>
<p>I was honestly very surprised to learn so much about Indian mathematics. I had heard that they created the zero, that wasn't as shocking, but to see the kind of math done between Sulba Geometry and Jaina Mathematics was pretty cool... especially that extremely early work in Number theory, geometry, algebra, and particularly infinity, a central concept to calculus, and then that later work in the Kerala school, it's really quite enlightening. Haha, so yeah, I take back what I said about the Indians. I think it's just a bout of Eurocentrism, as it said in the last bit of your second article. We're simply not exposed to Indian culture, and thus, would have little chance of knowing about it. Sorry about my ignorance.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>i would say that the black community is inherently disadvantaged not because of genetics or test-rigging, but because they are, as a community, poorer, go to worse school districts (and thus receive a worse education), and have fewer test-prep opportunities (because they are poorer)"<<<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>Here's the fallacy in that argument.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Poverty- after norming for poverty, poor blacks score lower than poor whites. In fact, as hard as it is to believe, poor whites score higher than middle class blacks. This has been shown in every study... and I can site them if you want.</p></li>
<li><p>Worse School Districts- There was a recent study done in Cleveland ... and repeated with the same results elswhere. Within the same schools (not school districts) ... whites SIGNIFICANTLY outperformed blacks at every income level.</p></li>
<li><p>Test Prep- I can only talk from personal experience. I know of no studies done as relates to test prep and race. However, in my racially mixed school, taking an SAT test prep course was UNHEARD of. They didn't exist ... and we were all too poor to take one had they existed anyway. However, the white kids outscored the black kids across the board.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>OK MarchBaller... here's your answer. If person A scores higher on the SAT than person B, over a large random population sample CONTROLLED FOR VARIABLES .... EVERY honest and knowledgeable statistician would conclude that group A people are smarter than group B people AS A GROUP.</p>
<p>However, it is very possible than a group B person can be smarter than ALL the Group A people. Or that the dumbest of the bunch is a group A person. However, it would be probable that there are more group B people at the lower end of the IQ bell curve, and more group A people at the higher end.</p>
<p>Now substitue Group A for WHITE. And substitute Group B for BLACK. Its that simple</p>
<p>wow risingsun, i thought your comment about the nonexistence of indian mathematics was sarcasm at first:S</p>
<p>blinc: feel free to "cite" your studies
sounds like you're a believer in "the bell curve"</p>
<p>Hmm... is the SAT even still linked to IQ?..... I know that Mensa stopped using them as a factor in the early 1990s....</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>feel free to "cite" your studies sounds like you're a believer in "the bell curve"<<<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>Knowing that the meticulous and scholarly research cited in THE BELL CURVE would draw guffaws because of its message ... I'll cite a study by two BLACK and LATINO ACTIVISTS. I don't have time to go into depth. There names are Pedro Noguero and Anton Akom. The study is THE SIGNIFICANCE OF RACE IN ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT. The following is a quote:</p>
<p>However, what makes the racial gap unique is the fact that the benefits typically associated with middle-class status don't accrue to African American, and in many cases, Latino students. In many school districts, children of color from middle class, college educated families continue to lag significantly behind White students on most achievement measures. The performances of these relatively privileged students have brought renewed attention to the relationship between race and educational performance, an issue that historically has generated controversy and paralysis for those charged with figuring out what should be done.</p>
<p>Off to work now.</p>
<p>also from your celebrated study:
"When placed within the broader context of race relations in American society, the causes of the racial achievement gap appear less complex and mysterious; the gap is merely another reflection of the disparities in experience and life chances for individuals from different racial groups. In fact, given the history of racism in the United States, and the ongoing reality of racial discrimination, it would be even more surprising if an achievement gap did not exist. If the children of those who are most likely to be incarcerated, denied housing and employment, passed over for promotions, or harassed by the police did just as well in school as those whose lives are largely free of such encumbrances, this would truly be remarkable news. But this is not the case, and if we recognize that educational patterns generally mimic other social patterns, we should not be surprised.</p>
<p>However, lest recognition of the racial achievement gap drive us into greater despair about the prospects for eliminating racial inequality in America, we must also recognize that, to the extent that change is possible, it is more likely to occur in education than in any other sector. This is because, despite its faults, public education remains the most democratic and accessible institution in this country. In fact, in the post-welfare reform period, it is all that remains of the social safety net for poor children. Moreover, though the number of cases is small, there are schools where no achievement gap exists, and there are students who achieve at high levels despite the incredible odds against them. These bright spots of success provide us with a window through which we can examine what might be possible if we lived in a society that truly valued children and was genuinely committed to equity and high quality education for all."
feel free to be served when you get back from work</p>
<p>just a wild guess but maybe his daddy left him and he had a lot of hardships in his childhood.</p>
<p>So no one here besides me thinks that these tests are nothing more than 4 sections of 50 questions about superficial knowledge. None of the stuff on these tests cover things that high school students learn in high school except for some of the math. </p>
<p>There should be tests that measure how students perform in thier interests and intended fields of study.</p>
<p>These test DO NOT MEASURE Intelligence but rather how well a person performs under those set conditions.</p>
<p>yeah you're the only one
seriously though, stop whining just because you did poorly on the test
"There should be tests that measure how students perform in thier interests and intended fields of study."
i call them the sat ii's
"None of the stuff on these tests cover things that high school students learn in high school except for some of the math. "
i dunno what you learn in your english classes, but at my school they teach how to analyze and compare pieces of literature as well as grammar and how to write well</p>
<p>I dont know; the analogies were pretty random to me. It seemed like nobody could do well on that section without first studying .. Good thing the ETS realized the error of its ways and abolished that nonsense. Also, a "standardized" test score shouldn't depend on the amount of test prep. a student has undergone. Such a system wherein a student is almost guaranteed to score higher with preparation is, to me, inherently flawed.</p>
<p>The issue that the author doesn't cover is that in EVERY test of intellect in the past 100 years ... from the military to the SAT ... from the LSAT to the MCAT ..... with no exceptions .... blacks score lower than any other group.... and this is after EVERY socio economic and family variable is accounted for.</p>
<p>In other words, regardless of the circumstance or advantage, blacks will always perform lower as a group.</p>
<p>And yes, I can site the sources.</p>