3.57, 1650....Got into Cornell!

Applying to College
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<p>The fact are the facts marchballer, and every statistically valid study shows that the SAT is the SINGLE best predictor of success in college ... especially in the first year.</p>

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<p>"and every statistically valid study shows that the SAT is the SINGLE best predictor of success in college ... especially in the first year."</p>

<p>-Hmmm.</p>

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<p>I don't know what you consider "statistically valid", but that statement is not true.... unless you ask the ETS of course.</p>

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<p>"The fact are the facts marchballer, and every statistically valid study shows that the SAT is the SINGLE best predictor of success in college ... especially in the first year."
kk is correct, gpa is by far a better predictor
i dunno what grass you're smoking</p>

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<p>"and every statistically valid study shows that the SAT is the SINGLE best predictor of success in college ... especially in the first year."</p>

<p>actually, the correlation between SAT scores and success in college is > 0.2 ... at least from the info given to me by my statistics professor at Cornell.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
OK MarchBaller... here's your answer. If person A scores higher on the SAT than person B, over a large random population sample CONTROLLED FOR VARIABLES .... EVERY honest and knowledgeable statistician would conclude that group A people are smarter than group B people AS A GROUP.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Given that you really cant control for variables anyway, your point is redundant..</p>

<p>Also, if you look at other factors that affect test score (the fact that public schools in predominantly black areas arent as good, and so smart black kids arent getting the same opportunity, etc), youll see the reasons for the differences in the test scores..</p>

<p>Im sure it makes you feel good to think you're smarter then an entire race of people, but the ignorant comments youve made recently prove otherwise..</p>

<p>Quit whining on these boards and go study for college... Some smarter black kid is going to steal your job anyway</p>

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<p>"actually, the correlation between SAT scores and success in college is > 0.2 ... at least from the info given to me by my statistics professor at Cornell."
you just served yourself (>.2 is a good thing)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.co-opliving.com/coopliving/issues/2000/September/food.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.co-opliving.com/coopliving/issues/2000/September/food.htm&lt;/a>
sat scores, while not as good as gpa to predict grades (which i'm not saying that's simply fantastic either), is still not completely worthless, not to mention you can't measure "success in college"</p>

<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98373&page=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98373&page=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>though i agree with most of your points, watercannon...
"Given that you really cant control for variables anyway, your point is redundant.."
then let's throw out the entire study of statistics since we can't control for variables apparently</p>

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<p>Actually, either you are making this up or are wrong. Please site the study your Cornell Prof refers to. Better yet, give me his name and I'll email him.</p>

<p>The fact is that the two most exhaustive studies regarding the SAT vs GPA as predictors of success were done in 1993 by Moffat and Bacon/Frank. They followed their statistically significant random sample thru college. The correlation of success is as follows:</p>

<p>SAT .56
GPA .3</p>

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<p>Do you have ANY idea how ignorant that statement is? Have you EVER taken an introductory statistics class???? Are you aware that almost EVERY breakthrough in medicine and other bodies of science (including sociology and psychology) absolutely depends on controlling for variables? Are you remotely aware that the science of statistics has advanced to the point that accurate contolling for variables is an accepted given?</p>

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<p>the moffat study was titled "The Validity of the SAT as a Predictor of Grade Point Average for Nontraditional College Students" and had college students aged from 16 to 60 partaking in the study
now i dunno about you, but i reckon people on cc and going to college in general are usually "traditional" college students</p>

<p>now i dunno about your bacon/frank studies (sounds more like an usda study to me) but feel free to type out the name of the study and the year as well so we can all see this study</p>

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<p>Again you are showing your ignorance. SAT scores for blacks at the same income level and in the SAME school as whites are always lower for blacks.</p>

<p>Also , racial discrimination has nothing to do with the education meltdown within the black community. Where black education is the WORST, the mayor is black, city council is black, the school superintendents are black, most of the principals are black. </p>

<p>"Oh", you'll say. "But "OUR" schools are underfunded compared to white schools" . Another media perpetuated myth. The FACT is that black inner city schools spend more per pupil than any other educational system. The highest in the nation being Washington DC at $15,0000 per student ... with the highest dropout rates and lowest test scores. The lowest expenditure per pupil? Rural WHITE schools ... which by the way have the lowest dropout rates and highest test scores. All white , Sioux Falls, spends $2,300 per pupil ... the lowest in the nation. And they have the highest test scores in the USA.</p>

<p>The blame for this sorry state of affairs falls solely on its black participants. Black students who are hostile to education. Black parents who don't care. Black teachers who are incompetent. Black adminstrators who sanction unwarranted promotions and the issuance of fraudulent diplomas issued to black students who can't read at the 5th grade level. And black politicians who get elected by reinforcing black "victimhood.</p>

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<p>Wrong study Karkaputto. he's done a myriad of studies. Better yet, try the study done by the Hoover Institute that shows an even larger gap between SAT and GPA as predictors of success. Solomon Wolpert, 1994, followed 7123 students thru college. The correleation was:</p>

<p>SAT .595
GPA .331</p>

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<p>try giving the title of the studies you cite</p>

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<p>Oh yea? I too can site random studies that mean nothing…..</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ucop.edu/news/sat/resaddendfinal.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ucop.edu/news/sat/resaddendfinal.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>“Looking at the predictor variables individually HSGPA is the best single predictor of freshman grades at UCR….”</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fairtest.org/facts/satvalidity.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org/facts/satvalidity.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>“Validity research at individual institutions illustrates the weak predictive ability of the SAT. One study (J. Baron & M. F. Norman in Educational and Psychology Measurement, Vol. 52, 1992) at the University of Pennsylvania looked at the power of high school class rank, SAT I, and SAT II in predicting cumulative college GPAs. Researchers found that the SAT I was by far the weakest predictor, explaining only 4% of the variation in college grades, while SAT II scores accounted for 6.8% of the differences in academic performance. By far the most useful tool proved to be class rank, which predicted 9.3% of the changes in cumulative GPAs.”</p>

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<p>Shoot, I forgot about this, and I talked to the dean at Temple today. I'll try to remember next time.</p>

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<p>It's funny how "Blink" or "Blinc" has two different birthdays; I'm thinking they're older than they claim to be.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The blame for this sorry state of affairs falls solely on its black participants. Black students who are hostile to education. Black parents who don't care. Black teachers who are incompetent. Black adminstrators who sanction unwarranted promotions and the issuance of fraudulent diplomas issued to black students who can't read at the 5th grade level.

[/quote]
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<p>While I don't agree with everything that Blinc has to say, I have to agree with this statement. There is no doubt that most dominantely black communities are led by black leaders. Any failure that the community faces is no one's fault but those leaders. </p>

<p>I also feel that proponents of AA fail to realize that simply setting the playing field "level" at college doesn't really solve the problem. What people have to do is solve the problem at the root which is the urban communites from which the students come from. Unfortunately, I don't hear many people talking about that. I feel that AA is simply a small band aid for a large injury that has lasted for many years (i.e. slavery, discrimination, etc). Yes even when we step outside of our narrow minded college admissions mindset, how much does it help that that 2 or 3% of the black population is getting a good education? What guarantee is there that these high achieving people are going to go back to their impoverished communites to help out instead of settling down in a predominantely white middle/upper class community. Instead of giving free passages, we should be providing opportunities. And that starts and ends with cleaning up our urban communities, not our colleges.</p>

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<p>I entirely agree, foodisgood. It's a shame.</p>

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<p>“What guarantee is there that these high achieving people are going to go back to their impoverished communites to help out instead of settling down in a predominantely white middle/upper class community.”</p>

<p>-Part of the point of this program is to create a larger middle class within the Black community. Social integration is at the heart of Affirmative Action. Thus, it’s not a bad thing that some in the Black middle class settle outside impoverished communities. </p>

<p>“What people have to do is solve the problem at the root which is the urban communites from which the students come from.”</p>

<p>-What about the urban communities? Education? Crime? Joblessness? Housing? Simply saying that people come from urban communities is not stating a problem. Also, what about places like Mississippi and South Carolina, places that contain substantial Black populations, but no real urban centers? Can the same solutions that are to be applied to larger urban communities also be applied to these places? It’s highly unlikely; this issue is not as shallow as people like to make it seem.</p>

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<p>He probably will either drop out or barely make it through. Hell, I was admitted to Cornell with a 4.0 GPA and 2190 SAT, and I was worried about failing out. I really wanted to matriculate, but my parents make too much money and were only willing to pay for the cost of the University of Michigan (great school, price, similar to Michigan, I don't blame them)</p>

<p>So I'm going to attend Michigan for at least a year, probably two. Assuming I survive, I think I might like to try transferring to Cornell.</p>