3 Questions for the Caltech Expert

<p>Gosh, it doesn't sound like there's any merit available for mere human kids at Caltech...that's a different tune than sung by their recruiters when trying to lure top students in my area.</p>

<p>Lets see, nearly 60% of students go to Caltech for average of $12,538/yr due to need-based aid. Only half of the students come out with debt and it averages only about 8k. I'm thinking there's a definite lack of kids from middle to upper middle class families there...Caltech seems to be for the poor or affluent.</p>

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<p>The original question was about Axline scholarships specifically. They do go to kids you might consider super-human. But Caltech offers quite a bit of other merit aid too, just not the full ride deal that Axline involves.</p>

<p>Does this merit aid (other than Axline) go to entering freshman? Or is it all aid that students apply for after coming to Caltech, ie upperclass merit aid?</p>

<p>And thanks for the great responses to my previous question.</p>

<p>There are various forms of merit aid. They are all awarded as a part of the regular application process (you don't have to do anything special to be considered) and all notifications are made by the time Regular Action decisions go out.</p>

<p>Until then, it's not really worth one's time to worry about that too much.</p>

<p>Rocketdude - In a sense, everyone who gets into Caltech gets some "merit aid" just for being accepted, because Caltech is cheaper for everyone than say, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. Everyone who can demonstrate financial need also effectively gets merit aid for being admitted because Caltech computes financial need more generously than other schools. Caltech's aid package may also include more grants and fewer loans than you would be awarded at other schools. (that doesn't help Bill Gate's kid, but it would help most families). They have also been known to give students jobs and simply pay them more than they are worth. You should just apply for financial aid and see what happens. Once you are in, you will have other opportunities for merit aid based on how well you do there.</p>

<p>What other merit aid is there for freshmen? All I saw at the finaid website were Axline and Presidents. The former awarded for "diversity" reasons.</p>

<p>oops, latter...Presidents=diversity.</p>

<p>It's pretty hard to find out information about the upperclass merit scholarships because the forms are not well-publicized, and students either fall into these categories:
a) ~half the students get fin. aid and it's usually a LOT (enough that they don't care about money)
b) A sizable portion come from fairly well-off families and aren't worried about merit aid
c) Have money available from outside or are Axline already
d) Realize it's not feasible for them (but there's no strict GPA cut-off)</p>

<p>Also, Caltech will first deduct any fin. aid that you're granted before reducing tuition, so this also explains why most ppl getting fin aid don't apply for the upperclass merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Another note: Only a couple sophomores get the merit scholarships but about 25 juniors and 25 seniors get the merit scholarship.</p>

<p>That's pretty much the way I figured it, webhappy. </p>

<p>"Another note: Only a couple sophomores get the merit scholarships but about 25 juniors and 25 seniors get the merit scholarship."</p>

<p>That doesn't sound like very good odds. I believe merit aid through Caltech is pie-in-the-sky for the vast majority of kids accepted. You're either poor and get their generous need-based aid or you're rich and it's a nonissue. Most folks who fall in between are probably looking at declining Caltech's acceptance.</p>

<p>Are you a student at Caltech, webhappy?</p>

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<p>You don't have to be that poor to qualify for need-based aid. The vast majority of people who qualify are middle class. Much more than other top schools, Caltech truly wants every student who wants to go there to be able to attend. Just apply for the aid and see what happens. At worst, you might end up with more loans than you would like.</p>

<p>I'm a frosh.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how Caltech's fin aid formula works, but I'm guessing it takes a percentage of real estate in the formula (and since I'm from the Bay Area, this would be why I'm not getting any fin aid). BTW, Stanford's fin aid office calculated my EFC to be almost twice the cost of attending school there (so it really was unrealistic for me to get fin aid I guess)! In any case, some students here have pointed out that Caltech's fin aid office is pretty open to discussions (but many are already very happy with their rewards--esp. those who also saw what MIT offered them!).</p>

<p>Finally, not only is Caltech a few thousand cheaper than comparable schools (HYPSM), but I also feel that I'm getting a lot more for my money here than at any other school.</p>

<p>Ok, sorry about the disappearing act. While I was home for break I didn't reply to anything, and it seems that there were a couple of questions that were directed at me, and didn't get responses. I'm back at Caltech now with a non-dialup connection, and will do my best to address them. For reference, I have sat on the Scholarships and Financial Aid Committee for two years and have thus reviewed applications for the upper-class merit awards, and helped work with the three directors of admissions that we've had over the last three years to have students review for who gets the Axline offers (an upcoming feature). </p>

<p>With respect to the upperclass merit awards (and affiliated Carnation awards), it is largely rising juniors/seniors, however there certainly are sophomores as well. The reason for this is that the application deadline is near the end of second term, and the first two terms for freshman are on pass/fail, so it's hard to distinguish yourself. Most people haven't done research yet (SURFs are the easiest venue for this, and they happen over the summer), nor have they gotten deeply involved in the community, or developed relationships with the professors that would help get compelling recommendations written. So not too many rising soph's get them. </p>

<p>You know an Axline applicant when you see them. They have an amazing application in all ways. They just are absolutely stunning and blow your socks off. They make you wonder how you got in. They remind you why you aren't a math major. If you can empathize with normal people at all, you probably aren't an Axline. If you can't understand why professors at first tier universities are so dense, you might be. And, by the way, hi to the folks I had lunch with and saw you at SURF; glad to hear that you got in! </p>

<p>I don't know the financial aid formula. However, I have it on good source (David Levy, director of financial aid; a man that I have a lot of faith in. We've served on three committees together) that, somehow, we have a more generous formula. I'll ask him next time I see him how it is. </p>

<p>That said, Caltech has a wide cross section of people. The average income of a Caltech family, while substantially above that of the median for the country as a whole (not surprising, family income is correlated with academic acheivment fairly strongly) is substantially below that of other first-tier schools. I heard that our median income is something like 40% of that of Harvard's. </p>

<p>We do have people from all classes. I would say that probably the "average" student here is upper-middle class, but there are folks from lower-middle class (like yours truly), people who are paying $200 a year to come here (I know more than a few), and people who have crashed their dad's porsche, and not had to worry at all about the financial impact. </p>

<p>While I've seen a number of arguments why it would be that Caltech's family income would be so far below those of peer schools (ranging from the fact that they don't feel the need to "keep up their parents' doctor/lawyer income" to "science and engineering are base and upperclass people aren't interested in them), none of them seem especially satisfactory. I think it probably ends up coming down to how admissions works, and how we look for merit. I think we do a pretty good job of "seeing through the application" and seeing if someone is going to be able to swing the very, very rigorous academics of Caltech. While we do not practice affirmative action, if someone has gone through non-academic trials and tribulations and done well, you can be fairly sure that they'll be able to make it through both the academic and non-academic horrors (for want of a better word) that college in general, and Caltech in particular, throw at you. </p>

<p>Lastly, the reason that people end up in so little debt when they graduate is due to a policy change that occurred about six years ago. Instead of giving huge loans, as we used to and a number of schools still do, we now give grants. This was made possible by a campaign goal which raised millions of dollars for financial aid (bear in mind, tuition makes up only 4% of Caltech's revenue in any given year), and happened at the same time that the Axline scholarships were established (What I hear is that apparently Mr. & Mrs. Axline felt if we were going to give so much need based aid, we should also have some merit based aid). This means that no Caltech student will be offered more than $1650 in loans, and $1650 in work-study per year. These can be interconverted, so if you wanted to take it all in work study (and work in the housing office for $20/hour or the libraries for $12 an hour doing almost nothing) you could. If you wanted to take it all in loans, you could. But no matter what, you won't accrue more than $3300/year in loans, or $13200 during your entire stay here (assuming the 4-year plan). So that's why people graduate with so little money in loans. Not because everyone is super-rich or super-poor. </p>

<p>End long post.</p>

<p>Galen</p>

<p>Thanks for the long post, kyshantry. No flames or disrespect intended, but I'm skeptical that Caltech's "average" student comes from upper-middle class families. The stats in conjunction with the very limited freshman/sophmore merit available through Caltech simply don't support that claim, unless the manner in which they calculate EFC is DRAMATICALLY different from other institutions. Comparing Caltech to Harvard is apples-to-oranges, btw. A better comparison would be with MIT.</p>

<p>I am upper-middle class. From various EFC calculators (one of which is at collegeboard: <a href="http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp&lt;/a&gt;) my EFC has varied from around $35k to over $40k. It would be great to know how Caltech's method compares to theirs. Since Caltech requires the CSS profile from collegeboard, I'm inclined to believe it's not too far off...I would be very pleasantly surprised if it is, though :). With an EFC of $35k, that doesn't leave much "need" for Caltech to fill. Where the funds to fill that need come from is moot.</p>

<p>Although I'd love to be able to, I can't afford $140k for college costs for only one of my children...won't happen. I don't believe the vast majority of upper-middle class families can either...I know alot of them.</p>

<p>ColoradoKid,</p>

<p>While I have no contact with the decision making process for financial aid, what I've heard from other students only confirms what Galen's seen on the Scholarships and Financial Aid Committee. At prefrosh weekend (which is for any student accepted, not just students who have decided to attend), I didn't hear of a single person who got a better FinAid offer elsewhere. Most were very impressed with how much FinAid they got. There were even a few people who wanted to go elsewhere (MIT, Ivy, etc.) but decided to go here because the financial aid offer was so much better. In my opinion, it really would be worth checking to see how much financial aid Caltech thinks you should get.</p>

<p>Oh, I definitely will be applying for finaid...CSS is submitted and I'll be doing an estimated FAFSA very soon. I owe it to my son to pursue any possible form of aid. I'm not hopeful that there will be alot offered, even though Caltech is known for it's need-based generosity. I am very aware that this is the case with any school who has tons of top students with limited merit dollars. Maybe Caltech is too generous with the need-based aid. Maybe some of these funds should be diverted to merit for mere mortal valedictorians with gpa's 4.0/4.77 unweighted/weighted, et al., but have strived for well-rounded development and actually reserved a little time to have fun instead of obsessing with some inconsequential pet project.</p>

<p>But that describes the majority of the incoming class, and a lot of others who aren't even accepted. I know where you're coming from since I was in the same position, but Galen's really right that Axline's really make you wonder how you ever got in. All of the one's I've met are BOTH well rounded and have exhibited a major drive in a particular area.</p>

<p>I'm not talking about axlines...it's conceded that they go to a very, very select few (hopefully no small-town politics involved). My last point was as I stated, maybe some of the generous funding for need-based aid should be given to increase the merit-based pot so non-axlines who don't qualify for need-based aid have a shot at being able to afford Caltech. Does that make sense at all?</p>

<p>Colorado - why are you singling out Caltech for this complaint? It sounds pretty convincing that <em>everyone</em>, including middle class kids, get better need-based financial aid offers at Caltech than at any of their other schools, plus some students get merit money. Why is Caltech the bad guy for you? Pick on the Ivies (which give NO merit aid, btw). Or bemoan the middle class squeeze at colleges in general. Or choose a different school where you do stand out enough at the top to get merit offers. Kids who are not going to get Axlines, but who are otherwise at the top of the heap for Caltech, could probably get generous merit aid offers at many other schools a notch or two down.</p>

<p>(and no, there is no "small town politics" involved in Axlines. From what I've seen, the kids who get them are truly world class.)</p>

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Maybe some of these funds should be diverted to merit for mere mortal valedictorians with gpa's 4.0/4.77 unweighted/weighted, et al., but have strived for well-rounded development and actually reserved a little time to have fun instead of obsessing with some inconsequential pet project.

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Thanks, you inspired me to register. I'd also like to note that I'm in a similar position in terms of finaid status, middle class with little likelihood of an axline due to some weak points in my application.</p>

<p>I'm sorry and I know you posted with good intentions, but I had to let you know that I found your post offensive for the following reasons:
1) "Inconsequential pet project" - Absolutely out of line. Many of these kids are changing the world as high school students, this is serious research and it's hardly inconsequential. You see the results of various research done by these students each day.
2) For some of us, science and our projects are fun. We enjoy learning and we enjoy researching and changing the world. We have plenty of time to have fun in high-school, I never really worried about my numbers too much because I was too busy having fun researching. I think your statement about students needing time for a life probably should be directed at the ones who spend all their time worrying over numbers instead of just finding something they love and doing it.
3) I don't see why a valedictorian with a good GPA should qualify for merit-based aid just because they have good numbers. Money should not be diverted from existing merit-based aid for this reason.
4) I agree with you that there should be more assistance for the middle-class. Middle-class NEED-based aid is what needs to cover these circumstances, because some of the middle-class still needs aid and are not recieving it. Unfortunately the world isn't perfect. As mentioned, this is a problem in almost every aid formula, the middle-class slips through sometimes. From everything I've heard, Caltech is better than most in this regard, hopefully you'll get what you need.</p>

<p>I'm sure your son has worked hard in high-school and this post is not meant to dimish his achievements. If it makes you feel any better, his GPA is higher than mine, his test scores are probably higher as well. (770/720/620/630/650 most people probably haven't seen those numbers in this forum... :-) Sorry if I came off harshly, I'm a bit stressed out over the whole application process and several ongoing projects.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

<p>Who said I was singling out Caltech? This is a Caltech forum therefore they are the subject of the conversation. I guess you missed what I said in an earlier post..."I am very aware that this is the case with any school who has tons of top students with limited merit dollars". The Ivies come out and say that no merit aid is awarded (most anyway) so merit wouldn't be a topic there. Caltech advertises merit aid and it's our responsibility to pursue those opportunities. I am finding out that there really isn't a great deal of merit for frosh and sophs, though. There are other top tier schools that do offer alot of merit scholarships, and yes, those schools are definitely being considered by my son. Caltech was his first choice and would likely be a great fit as it is quite obvious he would be among kids who he'd be very compatible with, intellectually. I'm not critisizing Caltech except maybe for giving the impression that it is affordable to someone not qualifying for need-based aid who is also not in the affluent category.</p>