3 Questions for the Caltech Expert

Colleges and Universities A-Z California Institute of Technology
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<p>I don't think Caltech is giving a false impression at all. It's much more affordable than most other top private schools. Colleges' ideas of what families can pay routinely fall short of what families themselves want to pay, but the shortfall seems a lot smaller at Caltech than at most places. I feel confident that if you or I truly want our sons to attend Caltech, we will be able to do so with whatever they offer without moving into a cardboard box or eating dogfood for 4 years. It is also likely that we could take a lot more vacations and have a somewhat more comfortable financial situation for the next 4 years if they accept a full ride somewhere else. I don't really see any injustice there. (See the thread in the parents' forum about choosing btwn a full ride and a "more prestigious" school.)</p>

<p>fwiw - last year Caltech made admission offers to 500+ students, and Axline offers to 30. (<a href="http://diversity.caltech.edu/dpg_reports/irvine06-04/Data.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://diversity.caltech.edu/dpg_reports/irvine06-04/Data.pdf&lt;/a&gt;). That means that approx. 6% of accepted students were offered a full ride. In contrast, Duke offers 16 similar scholarships each year and U. Chicago offers something like 20, in spite of having several times the number of accepted students.</p>

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<p>Wow, cool link Texas137.</p>

<p>Q: why did 9/11 affect 2002 admissions (ie. smaller applicant pool)? The only explanation I can think of is that less people are willing to fly.</p>

<p>Wow, so much data available there.
There are only 6 axlines in our frosh class but 9 President's scholars. 72 of us are from CA.</p>

<p>Incoming Freshman Class
“Top Ten” High School activities:
1. Volunteer service
2. Piano
3. Marching Band
4. Jazz/Symphony Orchestra
5. Boy Scouts
6. Track & Field/Cross Country
7. Tennis
8. Soccer
9. Swimming
10.Basketball</p>

<p>Head-to-head against peers:
There were 293 responses.
Of the top three schools:
-130 chose MIT (44% of respondents)
32% attended PFW
- 50 chose Stanford (17% of respondents)
16% attended PFW
- 26 chose Harvard (9% of respondents)
15% attended PFW</p>

<p>Caltech invites only the domestic non-waitlisted students to PFW.
Approximately 70% of these students attended.</p>

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<p>You can try to rationalize that all day but it doesn't change the facts, texas137. Regarding affordability, Caltech is a little cheaper than say, MIT, but when you're looking at an EFC x 4 of $140k at Caltech vs maybe $160k at MIT the difference is really insignificant at that point. To take on that expense for 1 child is doable but I've got another one following him up in a few years for whom I must provide the same opportunities. I realize the potential for getting merit during later years but that's not something you can bank on.</p>

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<p>Colorado -
Many parents take the position that there is some maximum amount that they are willing to pay which is far short of what the colleges on their child's list are expecting parents to contribute. Sometimes parents will say that they will pay the amount that a state school will cost, and if the student prefers a private school they have to figure out themselves how to make up the difference. That is perfectly the parents' right, although in fairness it's best to let the child know as early as possible what the parameters are. It is not particularly a Caltech issue. There is a lot of discussion of this sort of thing on both the financial aid and on the parents' board. The recent "full ride vs. more prestigious school" thread is particularly apt.</p>

<p>It sounds like no matter what "estimated family contribution" Caltech comes up with in its need-based package, you have already decided to take the position that it is more than you are willing to pay. Are you planning to eliminate all schools with the same or higher EFC? Or do you plan to pick and choose based on whether or not you feel the school is "worth the money"? Does your son know your thinking on this? </p>

<p>For freshman merit aid, figure a student has to be in the top 5-10% of a school's applicant pool to have a chance at anything substantial. If your son is in the middle of the applicant pool for Caltech, he should be eligible for merit aid at quite a few schools. None of them will be as selective as Caltech, or be able to provide a similar experience. If your son has his heart set on Caltech it may be a difficult situation. Hopefully your son has already applied to a number of them and there are places on the list that he would be happy to attend.</p>

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<p>We knew going in that we wouldn't be elligible for much, if any, need-based aid. We also knew that merit aid would be required to make a high $ school affordable without taking on alot of debt. In the beginning it seemed as though Caltech had alot of merit available for top ranked hs students. We
got this impression from hs counselors (who were all but sure a scholarship would be offered), Caltech alum and Caltech staff. We have not seen much to this point to substantiate that. What little merit is available will be eaten up by the top few in the acceptance pool. Because some (or even most) other top tier schools have no more merit than Caltech doesn't change the situation. </p>

<p>It's interesting that only 4% of Caltech's revenue comes from tuition. If that's really the case, they should be in a position to give more breaks on their tuition to deserving students...not just a few Einsteins. There's much more to the picture than what you or I know.</p>

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<p>Colorado - I certainly understand your disappointment, and your feeling, perhaps, of being mislead. But this sounds like a simple misunderstanding. What you were told about Caltech is true compared to other schools, but not true in the absolute sense you have been viewing it. "Top" means top 5-10% or so at every school which offers merit aid, which means that the vast majority of students are not going to get any. Here's an analogy - If your chance of winning the lottery in state X is twice (or ten times) the chance of winning the lottery in state Y, that sounds pretty good. And state X could honestly advertise that. But it doesn't change the fact that your chance of winning the lottery in either place is pretty darn small.</p>

<p>Did Caltech staff give you any reason to expect an offer for your son specifically? I'm going to guess that they didn't, because they certainly did not do that for my son in spite of the fact that we asked about Axline specifically during a private meeting with someone in admissions, and my son has a lot of national and international awards/honors of the type previous Axline scholars have had. They didn't even give us an encouraging word or surrepticious wink about admissions, although it was pretty clear that he had plenty of qualifications to get admitted (and in fact, was admitted later).</p>

<p>I'm guessing that your counselor, and an alum or two, did give you hope for your son specifically. Great kids who stand out in their communities are routinely told by their counselors, teachers, neighbors etc. that they are going to be able to go to any college they want, or that top schools will be competing to pay their way. Or they meet an enthusiastic interviewer, alum, or coach who tells them that they would be perfect for Harvard, or Yale, or whatever. I hear this sort of stuff about my son all of the time. The problem is, the well-meaning adults who tell kids stuff like that don't know anything. They never see how jaw-dropping the entire applicant pool is for the top few schools. Valedictorians, perfect SAT scores, and perfect grades are <em>normal</em> in that setting. Some of the kids who hear this stuff (and their parents) get so starry-eyed that they do not look below the super-elite schools which are a crap-shoot for anyone. They end up with a handful of Ivy rejections and no college to go to, in spite of the fact that there are many schools right below the top that would be thrilled to have them. It sounds like you have fallen into the same mental trap, but in terms of merit aid rather than admission (your son has actually been admitted to Caltech, right?).</p>

<p>From your post count, you are new to CC. Read the other forums. Get a sense of how many spectacular kids there are out there, and how other families have thought about the financial issues you are thinking about now. This is a great community. You may get some helpful ideas or suggestions. If nothing else, you will get great commiseration from the other parents.</p>

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<p>Yes, there is, and it is unlikely that it involves a financial conspiracy by Caltech. This is probably another case of misunderstanding how statistics work. If tuition is 4% of total revenue, that does not mean that tuition is 4% of the cost of an undergraduate education. It is a much higher percentage of the cost of an undergrad education (I'm going to wildly guess 50%), almost certainly in line with other top schools. That's because a hugely disproportionate share of the rest of the revenue is spent on research. Much of it is in the form of govt and industry research grants that could not be re-routed to undergraduate education even if Caltech wanted to do that. Here's another analogy - if the money that customers pay for milk only accounts for 4% of the grocery store's revenue, should they be able to give away free milk? The question ignores all the non-milk items in the store. The store may already be selling milk at a loss to bring in customers.</p>

<p>You might enjoy the book "How to Lie with Statistics" for an educational and humorous look at how statistics in our newspapers, etc. can mean something pretty different from the meaning most people would assign to them. It does not mean that the newspapers intentionally set out to mislead, it's just that most Americans do not understand statistics very well.</p>

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<p>Hi. I've been reading this with interest for a few days now. It seems Colorado is at peace with the fact that it is not rational to expect an Axline, despite possible statements to the contrary by uninformed people who don't have an appropirate appreciation of the level of competition. It's not rational for anyone to expect an Axline, even the people who end up getting them.</p>

<p>On the other hand, many parents nevertheless have serious trouble imagining how to cover the enormous cost of an education at one of the very top schools. But it is not the end of the world. What you have heard is true: Caltech's finaid office is ridiculously generous. They give out very nice awards to begin with and are willing to negotiate afterward if you can't manage it with their initial offer. Being so small, they can afford to spend one-on-one time with you and your son seriously considering how you can cover the costs of a Caltech education, and how they can help.</p>

<p>I do suggest waiting to see what Caltech offers and whether it is really so unsatisfactory. Until then, what's the point of complaining? The bottom line is that we will work as hard as we can within some external constraints to make it possible for every admitted student to come here. But if it is impossible to pay the fees in view of everything, I am sure there are many schools a notch or two down that would be thrilled to have your son.</p>

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<p>"They give out very nice awards to begin with and are willing to negotiate afterward if you can't manage it with their initial offer. Being so small, they can afford to spend one-on-one time with you and your son seriously considering how you can cover the costs of a Caltech education, and how they can help."</p>

<p>This is a good thing, Ben. </p>

<p>My son was accepted, btw.</p>