<p>Yesterday, I was searching for info about admission requests for master degrees and I discovered that UCLA had a "strange" requiement for european Bachelor holders from Bologna process; it's said that "Applicants who studied under the Bologna Process should present the master's degree (3 + 2)." (<a href="https://grad.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/acadrecs.htm">https://grad.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/acadrecs.htm</a>). That means that for applying to an US master degree, I should already have one? Looks absurd... why should I apply to a master degree, if I already have one? #-o </p>
<p>I actually have a Bachelor of Management Engineering from University of Applied Science of Southern Switzerland and I was planning to attend a Master in US, but the fact that my Bachelor is on a 3 years basis - like all european bachelors- looks to put a question mark on everything. Is that true? I searched for aswers on google, but the situation looks unclear; what do you think?</p>
<p>I think that comparing the bachelors on the number of years - 3 vs 4 - would be a mistake, because they come from different systems of education. In Italy - and similarly in Europe - the high school (Liceo) lasts one year more than US secondary education and provides a 360° knowledge; for example, I studied at a Scientific Liceo and, despite the fact that the focus was on scientific subjects, I had to study also 5 years of Latin (!), 5 years of Italian Literature, 5 years of English Literature, 5 years of History, 5 years of Art History and 3 years of Philosophy. On the other hand, the bachelor is focused on Engineering subjects only.
American bachelors last longer, but they also look more "broader" and less focused; consequently, I believe that a 3 years european bachelor should be considered at least equal to a 4-years one from US. What do you think?</p>
<p>Many but not all American universities accept 3-year Bachelor’s degrees for admission to their graduate programs. You’ll have to check with every university individually.</p>
<p>Each individual university will have an indication.
Whether you believe it’s fair or unfair, right or not… they can decide.
In part, it may be because the caliber students who get into UCLA Engineering are so competitive that it’s not possible for European engineering students to have reached that level in 2 and a half years (if they’re on a 3-year track, they’d have to apply after 1 and a half years).</p>
<p>Yes, I agree. I just found this too in UCLA site in the graduate division section:“Applicants who hold a three-year Bologna degree may be considered for admission on the recommendation of the department, program, or professional school.” So they’ll judge >:D< </p>
<p>I don’t know if that’s the main reason, but there’s certainly some truth to what MYOS1634 said.</p>
<p>First, you should understand that Master’s degrees have a different role in the US than they do in Europe. In the US, most students leave university with a Bachelor’s degree. Most Master’s degrees serve one of 3 purposes:
They are a stepping stone to a PhD.
They offer training in a different field. For example, someone with a Bachelor’s degree in physics could get a Master’s degree in mechanical engineering, in order to work as an engineer afterwards. Some majors, like social work, are only offered as Master’s degrees and are not available as Bachelor’s degree programs at all.
They offer an advanced specialization, usually targeted at people who’ve already been in the work force for a few years. </p>
<p>So which of these goals would you like to pursue? Your European Bachelor’s makes you overqualified for the remedial career-changers kind of Master’s degree, and you’re probably lacking the research or work experience to be a good candidate for the PhD-prep or specialization-for-working-professionals kind of Master’s degree. (American college students who are interested in a PhD would work extensively with their professors in their undergraduate years. In Europe, students don’t usually get that exposure until graduate school.)</p>
<p>Thank you both that’s an helpful info. :)>-</p>
<p>Regarding my purpose, I can certainly say it’s the third, advanced specialization. What you say about degrees in Europe is true: most of the times a bachelor student immediately attends master after the graduation. I personally think I could get more for my career working at least 1.5 years after the bachelor, making experience, saving money and pursuing a master abroad - and by the way, I love to travel.
In addition, I’m interested in attending a master in Systems Engineering (or Industrial Engineering, with some eletive courses of systems) and since it’s a discipline which has been developed mainly in the US in both academics and industries, I believe it would be of a great value for my career specializing directly in the USA; moreover, it’s even difficult to find a master in Europe, since many universities don’t have a department of Industrial and Sys. Eng.</p>
<p>My question is: how many years one is expected to be experienced in the working force for to get into a master?
In my university we developed some projects with real industries and to graduate is requied a thesis, written after a 2 -3 months of internship in a real company; does this experiences count?</p>
<p>I just read more carefully that MYOS wrote "it’s not possible for European engineering students to have reached that level in 2 and a half years (if they’re on a 3-year track, they’d have to apply after 1 and a half years). "</p>
<p>Maybe in US there is a different system in organizing the courses, but in Europe we have 13 years of studies before university, while in US just 12. During high school in Europe most of the classes are compulsory for everybody for general edu. In university we study for 3 years only our major, in my case engineering, no minor is allowed. So we consider it a 3-year major, not 2 and a half…</p>
<p>Yes, I know that but that’s exactly what I mean - you’re not comparing random curricula, you’re comparing competitive students applying to competitive universities. And things you can do when you’re a competitive HS student (13th year or not) are not the same as what you can do when you’re a competitive college student - namely, research (in a lab, for a company…), and internships.
What you study is only one part of your application.
When you apply, you apply during your 3rd year, typically in the Fall. Which means you only have 2 years of courses (which may well be equivalent or higher than what college juniors may have), but also 2 years of grades, 2 years of research experience (and usually less as 1st year students are basically never involved in actual research projects in their 1st, or even 2nd, year), and only one possible internship. They will be compared to students who have 3 1/2 years of college grades, 2 years or research (or more - up to 3 1/2) and at least one internship if not two. </p>
<p>Yes, that’s why I’ll work for at least one year after the bachelor, as I said; that given, I’m not going into research, as I would see the master as a terminal degree. Right now, I’m just getting an idea of how the US system works…</p>
<p>You’re totally right, when you say that american students have more opportunities for research and internships during undergraduate years. Here, in Europe research during undergraduate isn’t an issue at all, because nobody does it.
I believe there are many reasons behind that and one of the most important is language. Since here most of the undergraduate courses are taught in the national language -and in Europe there are many languages-, the opportunities for undergraduates are limited to the coutry where they live and that also translates in less networking for universities. In addition, in most courses there are 2-4 only professors for 150-200 students, so it would be virtually impossible to do research with even the best ones, because of lack of resourches. I don’t think it would change anything even if the bachelor lasts 4-years, the systems themselves are different.
Graduate only courses are in english. </p>
<p>I know UCLA is very competitive, but actually I don’t have a “feeling” yet of what universities I should apply to, given my situation; in fact, my main sources are forums and international rankings, but they not always agree. Do you have any suggetion for a good university with a MS in Industrial Engineering? Let’s say with international visibility and let’s say like or less competitive than UCLA …</p>
<p>I considered New York University, how is its reputation for engineering?</p>
Hard-if-not-impossible to say. When I was applying to graduate school - from an American college - my American professors told me to apply to a wide range of programs, from the most selective down to the least selective I’d be willing to consider. I ended up at Stanford, but my undergraduate professors could honestly not tell me if I’d even have a chance at a place like UCLA. There are just too many unknowns.</p>
The campus is pretty, my classmates were wealthy and spoiled, and most professors couldn’t care less about teaching. It’s a good university but I hated the atmosphere there. That’s partly why I left my PhD program with a Master’s degree.</p>