30k college debt--should I worry?

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>My financial aid counselor says I shouldn't, but as an art major, perhaps I will be shooting in the dark. This is coming from a private art college, which has given me a "half-ride" in financial aid. I will have accepted subsidized, unsubsidized and Parent PLUS loans, and after 2-3 years the total will be $30,000. </p>

<p>I am speaking practically. I am asking for your experience. What is an average comfortable monthly payment for a debt as large as 30k? In 10 years? In 20 years?! </p>

<p>I am thinking about what I will do after graduation. Alongside job hunting, I am considering traveling to Europe or getting a Masters, so how possible are these wishes? To what degree might this debt limit my future freedom?</p>

2

<p>Please IGNORE THIS: what is an average comfortable monthly payment for a debt as large as 30k? In 10 years? In 20 years?! </p>

<p>That question is too numerical too answer. Has anyone who is/was an art major faced a 30k college debt? </p>

<p>How did it feel to handle it?</p>

3

<p>since no one is answering,
I am a parent who might have needed my kid do that if he wanted to do art school.
he didn’t want any debt knowing he won’t be able to pay and he chose not do art school for some other reasons.
tuition and R&B might be not much of difference for the school he will be attending comes fall, but monthly cost of art supply and unknown studio/lab fees, laptop etc made difference enough.
I am going to cut to bare bones so he does not have to take any loans (for time being. who knows what happens down the road)</p>

<p>It depends on your family situation.
his art class teacher is still paying her loan 10 years later but with no regret, saying everyone does it (so should he) make kids responsible and aware, that is an American way!! (I am an immigrant and don’t get this area just yet)
like, I know parents taking luxury vacations and buying new cars without yet paying off their student loans while only mounting yet more interests until own kids hit college year. and some extreme case, lay low for 20 plus years after defaulted on purpose, so to start clean slate.
I don’t know.
everyone take loans, but supposedly borrow with understanding of you’d pay back ASAP or at least as you’d promised, yes?
some people don’t.
isn’t that why we are in this mess?
it’s good you are thinking ahead. talk to your folks what is their money smart/ comfort level is.
if you can go back living with parents for free after finishing school, for example, any money you earned can be channeled to bills. will your folks let you do that?</p>

<p>let’s wait and see if anyone else would answer.</p>

4

<p>I hope you get people with first hand experience to answer your question. I have friends who have taken on this much debt for grad school. The job comes, the economy is bad. The job goes and the bill collector calls. You can imagine how that feels. </p>

<p>If you want to know your monthly payment, call your bank or student loan bank. With the interest rate, principal and duration, they can calculate for you.</p>

<p>“I am considering traveling to Europe or getting a Masters, so how possible are these wishes? To what degree might this debt limit my future freedom?” Well…
Travel to Europe - on what money? Student loan money?Gifts? Parents?
Master’s - If you have 30k in loans from bachelor’s, guessing you will need loans for master’s too? Guess the Student Loan co will defer your payments til you are done. Give them a call and see how much per month for the 30K plus the master’s degree loans.</p>

<p>Do some research on what people with a Bachelor’s and Master’s in your field make. Take that income times .7 (for FICA, insurance and other stuff), subtract out your monthly payment per the bank. And then decide if you can live on that based on where/how you want to live. Decide if the experience is worth it right now. Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe something has to wait. Sorry to be the realist, but I know plenty of people who have succeeded with a non-traditional education schedule . And I know others who live a life pretending to be who they are not with trips and cars and big debt. You are the only one to decide which is the right choice for you.</p>

5

<p>First of all as I understand it those unsubsidized loans begin accruing interest the moment you sign for them. Was this taken into account? </p>

<p>Without accounting for interest accruing on the total, $30,000 paid off in 10 years would amount to $250 a month approximately. But you would also be accruing interest so to pay it off in 10 years I would ball park payment of $300 a month. In a strong economy maybe not so difficult but with this current economy and not knowing how long this will last this could be difficult . . . making $300 a month payments.</p>

<p>Are the assurances coming from the private college? And by offered “financial aid” do you mean these loans or are they offering you aid that doesn’t need to be paid back? </p>

<p>I can offer you this, I have younger relatives more your age who have recently graduated. Both without loans. They both choose a school that allowed and offered them that opportunity. Friends went elsewhere.</p>

<p>They are doing much better and have much more freedom of choice than most of their friends, the majority being saddled now with loan debt. Of course, it will affect your choices and options. </p>

<p>I think it’s good advice to look into the likelihood of job prospects, etc. Look online for feedback from recent graduates re: job prospects and loan debt.</p>

<p>Also I would go outside of the private college’s offices for advice. They do have a vested interest in your attending and maybe their advice is good but do remember that the $30,000 you will be paying off will be going into their pockets so they may not be all that unaffected by their own profit concerns when advising students.</p>

6

<p>The college board website has a student loan calculator: [Student</a> Loan Repayment - student loan debt - college education repayment](<a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Loans: Your Strategy – BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>They advise not paying more than 10-15% of your starting salary to fund debt. </p>

<p>Another figure I have heard is not to take on more debt than you expect your first year starting salary to be. So to take on 30,000, you should expect to make that much or more. Note however, that you may need to take on debt for other things; a car, a home, credit cards. </p>

<p>Factor all of that in to see if this amount of debt makes sense for YOU.</p>

7

<p>I should have said MONTHLY student loan repayment should not be more than 10-15% of your starting salary.</p>

8

<p>Is this a Fine Art’s major? Or an art major with a commercial use?</p>

<p>All I can say is learn marketing if it’s Fine Arts. There are fine artists out that are making good money by traveling to art shows exhibiting. I have a friend who has his own impressionist style of painting making $200k a year. He works his butt off though. He’s not the only one either. I know of another making over $100k. If you figure out how to run that circuit and your art is marketable you can pay that off in a year if your ambitious enough.</p>

9

<p>I would suggest a little caution in assuming that as a young artist just starting out you will command the sorts of money being quoted here. Please do keep in mind that most artists starting out need to build up a reputation and obtain a good gallery before commanding these sorts of figures. And in fact often famous paintings by known artists are earlier works that now command high figures but were sold by the artists early on in their career at much lower prices. So a painting that sold for $5,000 could possibly 20 years later sell for $2 million but it’s the painting’s owner not the artist that sees that money. And artists can fall in and out of favor, it fluctuates. The NY Times just had an article about artist who were very “hot” just a few years ago who’s works are now fetching far less money.</p>

<p>The average graphic artist makes around $47,000. Of course some, particularly those in large cities, can command much more than that but that’s the average. Look at the “averages” when assuming what you might be making, to be safe.</p>

<p>I would like a little more description of what the “art show” circuit is. And perhaps you can direct us to the work of this person who has developed their “own style of impressionism.”</p>

10

<p>who’s works
sorry that should be whose works of course
It’s early need my coffee off to make a cup
and that advice about learning marketing, extremely good advice
Basic business courses, marketing courses, all good you’ll need it</p>

11

<p>artsmarts
I didn’t mean to imply that a starting artist would get big bucks… However, if they’re good and they have a style that sells…well some are that capable. I also am a big believer in marketing. I sold paintings all through art school on commission assignments to help pay for art school costs. </p>

<p>Here’s the artist
[Gallery</a> of Original Oil Paintings by Jon Smith](<a href=“http://www.jonsmithart.com/Gallery.htm]Gallery”>http://www.jonsmithart.com/Gallery.htm)</p>

<p>BTW he didn’t even work full-time on his art for a long time until got involved in the art show circuit. He also surveyed what would sell and then adapted it to his style. This is what you will see here. I have a few of his earlier outdoors impressionism when he worked part time. Very different from what you see here. More like what you think of as Impressionism with the colors. Also, much cheaper.</p>

12

<p>artsmarts,
I can’t tell you more about the art show circuit as I don’t do it. I just know of it. </p>

<p>Although, my degree is a BFA in Illustration ( Started in Fine Arts so have lots of studio art behind me which applied to that degree along with Graphic Design), I have mainly worked as a Graphic Artist specifically as an art director. I couldn’t get a job when I graduated but did freelance. If it wasn’t for an old boyfriend who was a businessman encouraging me to not work for anyone ever as I was still young and didn’t own much then. I wouldn’t have stayed freelance and eventually become a small design studio, had that not happen. </p>

<p>Three people can generate a lot of work and revenue. So, I eventually went on to surpass my peers income using marketing and promotion to larger corporations before I curtailed it by having a child and moving. I do remember reading by 1998 that designers were getting about $75k after just several years experience. I know from looking again, in Boston circa 2001, experienced ADs were getting bout $120k. You won’t make this at first but you will make more on your own sooner, if you have to stamina for the ups and downs and can market yourself. Guess, I am just an optimist in general, but I do know things are shakey with this current economy and that student debt defaults are soaring as a result. So there is cause for much concern.</p>

13

<p>I just want the young people reading this information to have a realistic view of what is happening with the current economy. Times were booming in NYC in 2001 also but sad to say these are different times and the outlook is different even for those with topnotch skills.</p>

<p>The AIGA states that current salaries for those starting out range from $25,000 to $35,000.
But this is even more relevant:
“For recent graduates, the opportunities, where available, often consisted of low-paying or unpaid internships, without benefits. In some fields of design, “permalancers”–those freelancers who are retained indefinitely, with no security and little chance of becoming regular staff in the foreseeable future–had to simply appreciate having work when so many others did not.”</p>

<p>This is not being put out there to dissuade anyone, I think forwarned is better so you know what you’re facing when you sign up for those large loan amounts. Plan ahead, plan smart and work your tush off!</p>

<p>This is the statement opening their current salary survey for 2010.
In 2009, the design profession experienced the same devastating disruption that hit the economy as a whole. Designers were certainly among the more than eight million Americans to lose their jobs, and that, in turn, has influenced both the demand for labor and compensation patterns. However, by all indications, this downturn in employment for the design profession has been more selective than sweeping.</p>

<p>Anecdotal evidence and industry data indicate that corporate design departments and advertising agencies suffered the most employment losses. At the same time, the broader discussions about adaptive strategies for corporations often hinged on innovation, design and design thinking. Hence, demand for design was not eliminated, and business at many independent studios remained active. Those studios were not necessarily hiring, but they were very busy picking up newly outsourced work from corporate departments and other clients seeking competitive differentiation for their products.</p>

<p>For recent graduates, the opportunities, where available, often consisted of low-paying or unpaid internships, without benefits. In some fields of design, “permalancers”–those freelancers who are retained indefinitely, with no security and little chance of becoming regular staff in the foreseeable future–had to simply appreciate having work when so many others did not.</p>

<p>What we have heard from design-studio heads is that they are working harder, but margins are smaller. Hence, the productivity gains that individual employees are contributing are not being rewarded because clients (internal or external) may not be paying for those gains.</p>

<p>The good news is that the Design Leaders Confidence Index for the third and fourth quarters of 2009 has shown that the profession’s leading designers are confident that the design economy has hit bottom and will be recovering over the coming months. The index held at 98, up from 51 in October 2008 and consistent with designers’ attitudes between 2005 and 2007.</p>

14

<p>I was talking generally about these professions and then made note about the economy which, btw, is true for most jobs/professions even that painter. But half of his former income is still pretty good. </p>

<p>

There have been downturns in the past and this type of thing is the norm when those downturns happen. All those I know with web businesses have laid off half their staffs because theyt have half the work they had. Same with those who do print mailings. Same story. It’s a way to stay in business. Others that freelance are very slow.</p>

<p>

Well, I think things may get worse judging from economists who predicted the mess who laughed at before it all hit. Inflation may hit 50%. But then you kids will be able to pay off those loans using cheaper dollars. I think we live in very unusual times.</p>

<p>As for benefits, I never had them until I made good money. Then I had to pay for my own as well as match SS.</p>

15

<p>I think the best advice re the question about debt is to assume maybe $25,000 starting salary if you’re thinking graphic design, $30,000 at best but certainly not guaranteed and then take a look at maddenmd’s information about what is recommended to pay off these sorts of loans. When I took out loans some …ahem…years ago the adage was that you would be paying off today’s dollars in tomorrow’s currency which would be worth more. But I’m not sure that’s going to hold true for your generation. Hopefully it will but it make take some time for any readjustments in this economy. So just be cautious.</p>

16

<p>smarty dear, cheer up!!
I believe in WNYC (but NOT Citi bank!! hate the logo!!!)
[Financial</a> 411: New York City’s Design Sector - WNYC](<a href=“http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/jun/08/financial-411-new-york-citys-design-sector/]Financial”>http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/jun/08/financial-411-new-york-citys-design-sector/)</p>

17

<p>Huge WNYC fan myself Bears, still listen constantly.</p>

<p>And I’m not in need of cheering up particularly, just wanted
to be realistic and give out real information. As I said I’m not
trying to discourage anyone, remember I said use caution not
don’t do it. I think the AIGA figures are very realistic from what
I’ve seen and that’s having worked in the field in NYC wearing
many different hats. I just don’t want these kids to get a figure
like $120,000 stuck in their head when in fact that’s not realistic
until one’s been in the job market for quite some time or unless
you manage to be a total star right off the bat. I think those $30,000-
$55,000 or so figures are much more accurate as well as that note
about freelance being more and more what’s available. The WNYC
information is encouraging and I think that moreso than other markets
there’s usually always work to be found in NYC but the question was
the salaries and you’re certainly not going to walk into a six figure job
at the get go unlike some of those Citibank investment people.</p>

<p>How are the Bears and Dogs doing?</p>

18

<p>barely alive but they don’t ask nor need much to live.
I need them living only four more years for benefits, hopefully no college debt.
then I’d retire to White River Junction where I can get…
wait, how much is half gallon generic 2% milk around there?
I am afraid by then it will be hot arty resort-y town with wholefoods, cafe that sells lox and bagels and artisan chocolate place you can’t pronounce the name.
smarty dear, you keep eye on it, yes?</p>

19

<p>sorry hijack
smarty here found a gem of the cartoon school in VT.
if anyone wanna do meaningful graphic novels, check it out.
thou I am sure you can not make much money long long time if ever as a cartoonist.
tuition is 16K or something and no, don’t think it worth taking private loans.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/visual-arts-film-majors/1160242-urgent-sequential-art.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/visual-arts-film-majors/1160242-urgent-sequential-art.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I bet you’d be better off learning how to fix Citi bank’s logo</p>

20

<p>Save a place for me in WRJ, I’m there.</p>