<p>@thaumaturge: selective schools care A LOT about APs because they consider it the “normal” education students who will attend their colleges should have before they enroll. Therefore the courses are pre-TopCollege, NOT equivalent to 1st year classes, and receive no credit. The exception would typically be AP Language, AP Calc BC (sometimes AB), Physics C, which result in placement and/or credit.
wrt to rural kids in Iowa vs. non rural Iowa: non rural Iowa gives a slight boost, rural Iowa gives a big boost. Feel free to disagree if you live elsewhere or aren’t an admission officer since the issue doesn’t apply to your family or professional field It’s not related to “parochial thinking” or to the fact rural high school might be deficient, but rather that there are few students from rural midwestern states to start with, and very few of them apply, which means they are a form of diversity at a top college thus get a boost. Furthermore, specifically wrt hihg achieving students in underperforming rural school districts, fact is that most urban underperforming schools are now on the radar, whereas most underperforming rural schools aren’t (or “can’t” be ie top colleges won’t send reps to a far-away school, factoring in two plane rides+rental car to 38 seniors and only 5 or fewer who could potentially apply while a large number are looking at community college or the Army: not worth the time and money to invest, going to an urban school is going to offer better ROI simply due to the transportation ease and number of students that can be fruitfully reached within a few days); in these circumstances, any link that can be established between a “new”/“discovered” high school and a college is highly valuable.</p>
<p>I listed four schools that are very different in size and vibe that could be within driving distance. They were just examples of elite private/strong small private/strong, medium private/large public). Others may do the job, too, if the student has others closer (Wartburg, Northern Iowa, UDubuque, plus Grinnell again because it’s hard to replicate Grinnell…)? The idea is for the kid to visit various colleges to see what is a “want” and what is a “need” in his criteria, based on visits, not just friends and word-of-mouth (and perhaps guidebooks).</p>
<p>What schools has this kid been thinking of? What are the “needs” criteria for him?</p>
<p>I grew up in rural Iowa and graduated from Northwestern. There were not then, and are not now, many students from rural areas at NU. I shockingly had a couple classmates from rural Iowa and knew a few more from rural areas in downstate IL and northern WI. I grew up with people wearing Lee jeans, cowboy boots, cowboy hats; shotguns in our cars just in case we decided to go hunting after school, etc. NU was a different place. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that being an applicant from a truly rural place (for example,Laurens, IA; not Iowa City, Ames, Dubuque, etc) might give an applicant a slight advantage over a kid with similar stats from Des Moines or Iowa City. </p>
<p>Problem is, NU can’t get many kids from these truly rural areas to apply (kids in the 32-36 ACT range). Most end up at Iowa State or Iowa; like my son. </p>
<p>^yup Haystack, you summed up the “problem” that top colleges encounter very well. Colleges want these kids to apply but they don’t know how to “find” and “recruit” them. The traditional system - send a rep who’ll talk up the school - is too expensive and has very very low ROI. There are few kids with the desirable profile to start with (due to demographics) and then they don’t apply to TOP 25/Us/LACs. Most apply to their state schools - there’s nothing wrong with them but it still means rural midwestern kids are in short supply as applicants to top colleges. So when an accomplished rural Iowa kid with a 32 ACT applies, well = jackpot!+ :)). It’s not sufficient in itself to have an ACT32 but that kid is NOT looked at as if he were applying from an East-coast city. However, the “TOP AP school” in Iowa is unlikely to be in a rural area so the boost is likely to be small, but still, it’s Iowa so it means a boost for the kid without any extra work because he’ll bring a perspective his urban/suburban/metropolitan classmates won’t have encountered before and that will be useful to all in class discussions.
Now, does this kid have chances at Harvard? Probably not. But can he get into a good school that’s ranked between Harvard and Iowa State and will offer good financial aid? Absolutely.</p>
<p>Maybe Northeastern. Decen merit scholarships, interesting music tech / industry programs. program. Although it has a somewhat campus-y core, it is right in the middle of Boston. </p>
<p>NEU claim to fame is a strong co-op program (2 to 3 sessions, paid 6 months… can live on campus). </p>
<p>@thaumaturge I have to disagree. As @myos1634 says, APs are expected by top schools from kids who go to schools that offer them. The most rigorous coursework available is expected. Kids going to top schools do not, in my experience, expect or want to use APs for credit towards graduation. Placement, yes. </p>
<p>It doesn’t sound as if this student’s goal is to get through undergrad as quickly and cheaply as possible, which would be the only reason to care much about whether AP credits count towards graduation. </p>
<p>As far as admissions go, kids who have good results on AP exams–ie, 4s and 5s–will cite them in the “other honors” section of the Common App. If the score isn’t cited, it may be assumed that either the student didn’t take the test, or that he didn’t do well on it. I doubt that either is disastrous, but it doesn’t strengthen the application. AP scores, ACT or SAT, and SATIIs are a check on the rigor of the HS, especially if it isn’t known to the admissions people at a given school. If this student went to the “top AP school” in Iowa, likely it is known to the regional reps from significant private Us.</p>
<p>BTW, an econ grad from a small LAC can have excellent employment prospects upon graduation…depending on the small LAC: Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Wellesley, et al.</p>
<p>It’s too bad your friend people get surprised. I did research ahead on AP/IB and assumed other families did same. Even 8 years ago most college websites published a AP/IB credit grid.</p>
<p>AP exam scores may not be reported but this student’s scores do not show he did very well in learning the AP material, leaving him with an unimpressive knowledge base.</p>
<p>It does seem like cost is a concern, so a few credit units from AP scores may provide a buffer to avoid late graduation due to being just a few credit units short after 8 semesters.</p>
<p>What are his parents willing and able to pay? That would make a very big difference. If he’s looking for a full ride, teh options are more limited and getting that is tough, even at schools where full COA rides are offered. Does he have money saved? Do his parents? It’s not enough just to say he wants no debt. How much are parents and student able and willing to pay from past income (savings), Current income (jobs on both Parent and student’s parts) since the goal is no loans or very little. (future income). </p>
<p>Also does the family qualify for any financial aid? Like what is their EFC, approximately? Personal bankers and teachers around my area can make a lot of money, like my neighbors who have that combo as a couple. She makes 6 figures as a teacher at a top school district, and he does very well as a personal banker, in that they’ve paid full costs for their two oldest who have gone/are going to college and will be doing the same for thier youngest. I get the sense, that they want to go to college for free. Gotta know what they are eligible to get in the way of aid, what they are willing to pay out of pocket. </p>
<p>^
I’m guessing that if the student gets a nice merit award from somewhere, they won’t qualify for any FA because the remaining costs would be beyond “need.” </p>
<p>As you mention, once you combine a teacher’s salary with another full time salary, the EFC could be significant. Many veteran teachers are now earning salaries in the $65k-100k range. </p>
<p>We do need clarification as to how much the family will pay and how much they need in either need-based-aid or merit scholarships.</p>
<p>I have no idea what they make, (that would be like asking someone their weight!) though I don’t think they are rolling in the dough. I’ve taught longer (year 35 with a masters) and gross less than $55,000. I don’t think this young man aspires to an Ivy. The family is very pragmatic. </p>
<p>The advice given here is very good. His stats are fantastic for a kid who works, plays in a band, and is 17 years old! I think that people on this site forget that we are discussing young people who are 3-4 years older than 14! Holy cats! Where is there room for the development of “human-ness”? </p>
<p>I have a young man in a class of mine who was selected to attend a prestigious assemblage of high school seniors held at Washington University in St. Louis last week. While waiting in a room with 50+ seniors, they went around the room reciting their ACT’s. This kid had an average ACT of 22. Everyone else had a 32+. Most said they were going to Harvard, Yale and the like. (Early admissions for all? It’s only October.) He wants to go to a Christian college in Nebraska. He worked as a missionary in Liberia this summer, before Ebola. He would like to work in missions, creating a blog/website making others aware of the plight of others. He is a prolific photographer. He was very intimidated by the other seniors in the room. My answer to him? “You are who you are! Embrace that!”</p>
<p>There is a place for every kid! I want the best for all, and I know that you do too! If we can encourage every young person to become more self-actualized, that’s a good thing!</p>
<p>Have them check the Net Price calculator on every website (each university calculates differently). You don’t need to ask that the results are but do have them work with a budget and see whether they can meet EFC.</p>
<p>UNebraska Lincoln would probably give him a nice big scholarship for an ACT 32. That would be a big university in a big city… but are those his most pressing criteria? Could he like better a good music program and a more intellectual student body, even if the university’s small or medium-sized? What about living in a city - is a suburb okay? Is less than 1 hour from a major city okay? </p>
<p>Fact is, for an Ivy candidate, his stats would NOT be fantastic, he’d actually be below average, except 1° he’s applying from a rural state that’s not very represented in elite schools so they know that he really is exceptional compared to his peer group and 2° he’s not applying to Ivies.</p>
<p>I would recommend he applied to private universities and LACs ranked 10-50, though, paying attention to vibe.</p>
<p>Can you please ask him/them to detail what among his criteria is a “need” (must-have, otherwise won’t consider the school; I assume that financial aid is one) and what is a “want” (would be cool to have but if I have to make a trade off, that’ll go).</p>
<p>@AHSTeacher, you said that finances were a major concern, so we naturally started talking about admission to schools where a middle-class family could get really significant FA. Those happen to be the most selective schools. The kids who are realistic candidates for those schools have better stats than this kid, similar ECs, and have had no problem developing their “human-ness” at the same time. That’s the reality. The kid I know best needed a full ride. He had 2300+ SAT, matching SATIIs, placed first–not fifth–in the state in two–not one–national foreign language exams, was a 3-season varsity athlete, and played in the regional youth symphony, all-state, various audition-based programs. And had 5s on 5 core AP exams and 4s on two more.</p>
<p>I fully agree that there are many paths for kids, and that’s great. I don’t think anyone was suggesting that this kid isn’t a great kid, or that he has to get into one of the true meets-needs schools to have a great college experience and a fulfilling life.</p>
<p>From what you’ve said, I would suggest that he apply to the University of Iowa. I assume they have an honors program, and that he would be able to get into it. On everything else, his parents are going to have to run NPCs. Anyone who needs money should cast a wide net. It would be good if he broadened his search.</p>
<p>OSUMom18…reasonably priced for in-state. My son is current freshman, 35 ACT, 3.94 GPA, 11 AP classes,
paying full OOS tuition. If you don’t apply early enough, scholarship money goes fast. </p>
<p>OP says the kid wants minimal debt, big city, marching band. I mentioned Florida International U. a few pages back, with their guaranteed full tuition and books for someone with this kid’s credentials, and I got zero response from anybody. I know FIU is relatively new on the scene, but I’ve seen the place and it’s for real…50,000 students, shiny newish campus, palm trees all over the place, Div. 1 sports, INSIDE the city of Miami. What’s not to like about this place at that price?</p>
<p>The fact is that the kid should NOT go where he matches with ACT/GPA. He should go where his personality matches and where he can pusue all of his interests academic and otherwise, including present and potential. He should and deserves to feel comfortable with surroundings and student body. And nobody, not a single soul here can point out to this place. Kid should visit multipe times, talk to current students, stay overnights, even stay with potential sport team/band members. For many, even food service may be an importat criteria. If Merit award is available, good. The truth is that he gets something almost everywhere, but how much might be a huge difference. Schools that offerred great Merits to my D. do not match OP’s criteria and I have a feeling that none of them would. Eventually, after he realizes that, he will compromise, but maybe not right from the start.
Not sure at all if sending Midwestern kid to Miami is such a good idea, but that is me with the kid (not any more a kid though) who definitely prefers to be as close to home as possible even now as she graduates from Medical school. </p>
<p>^^^yes he should go somewhere that matches his ACT/GPA-he’s trying to minimize his debt load!!!
Gosh, talking about food service as criteria is way too much a first world problem! That’s great if your kid wants to stay close to you and money isn’t an issue but it certainly is for this student or the OP wouldn’t have started this thread.</p>
<p>If he wants to avoid debt, he should pick a school where his ACT places him above the Top 25% mark (typically, within the top 10%) as this is likely to generate merit for him. Then, within all possible universities, he’d have to find his “fit” - universities can be very different in atmosphere (is music important not just to the music students, but to the campus? Are sports important and which ones? How prevalent is drinking and what does the college organize for the non drinkers? etc.)
Food can be very important, especially for kids who are vegetarian, can’t eat certain foods, or simply want to eat healthy (not all cafeterias offer food above fastfood level and “teach by practicing” good nutrition/good taste). It’s definitely a “fit” question to be discussed once acceptances are in.</p>
It’s not related to “parochial thinking” or to the fact rural high school might be deficient, but rather that there are few students from rural midwestern states to start with, and very few of them apply, which means they are a form of diversity at a top college thus get a boost. Furthermore, specifically wrt hihg achieving students in underperforming rural school districts, fact is that most urban underperforming schools are now on the radar, whereas most underperforming rural schools aren’t (or “can’t” be ie top colleges won’t send reps to a far-away school, factoring in two plane rides+rental car to 38 seniors and only 5 or fewer who could potentially apply while a large number are looking at community college or the Army: not worth the time and money to invest, going to an urban school is going to offer better ROI simply due to the transportation ease and number of students that can be fruitfully reached within a few days); in these circumstances, any link that can be established between a “new”/“discovered” high school and a college is highly valuable.</p>