32 A's and 14 Fs equals a C- in Geometry

Parents Forum
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<p>There are also 3 B's, 4 C's, and one D. I am so frustrated, I just needed to vent. My son (with a good deal of encouragement and support), seems to be really trying this semester ( since he got "good" PSAT results, and a deluge of mail from colleges... yes, be knows the deal), and I'm hoping he can finish his sophomore year with a B, so he is at least ELIGIBLE to apply to a UC, and has a shot at a CSU.</p>

<p>Right now he less a C+ in English, and a B- in US history, and while it's not great, writing is not his thing, so the grades seem reasonable. OTOH, math and Science ARE his thing, and while he has an A in Bio, he's struggling in Math. Although he knows the subject and gets A's ion tests, and on homework HE TURNS IN, when it doesn't get to the teacher, he gets an F. </p>

<p>It used to be assignments where "forgotten", left at home, or lost in the back pack, but that has greatly improved, and now it seems one conflict after another with his math teacher has him sent out of class, or disgruntled, leading to the missing assignments. </p>

<p>If he get's a D as his final grade, he can improve his grade in summer school, but not with a C. The worst part is, he is trying hard, and so close to giving up trying to be a "good student", which is NOT how he has come to think of himself. And FWIW, I met with the teacher last week, and earlier this year. Also, he was diagnosed with "ADHD"; and takes meds religiously since almost 5 yews old. I am considering writing her or the guidance counselor a note saying the same thing I've said here. </p>

<p>Any thoughts? Thanks for "listening".</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap:</p>

<p>Is it too late to rescue the situation? Or should your son just settle for a D then re-take the class over the summer?</p>

<p>In my opinion, when a child has some learning issues (ADHD, LD) parents should consult the teacher at the beginning of the year and discuss strategies. For example, if the teacher said: “Time to hand in your homework!” it might remind your son to fish in his backpack for the homework. He might need a bit more prodding:“Did you check in your backpack?” This is assuming that he did complete the homework. My nephew had exactly this problem of doing homework, forgetting to bring it to school, leaving it in his backpack… He’s now a sophomore in college and has learned to be organized and less forgetful.</p>

<p>Good luck to your son!</p>

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<p>Does his school use an online gradebook system where you can track the class grade as the semester progresses?</p>

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<p>“Does his school use an online gradebook system where you can track the class grade as the semester progresses?” </p>

<p>Yes and I have it emailed to me every day. That’s what precipitated this post. Went from a B- to a C- since Friday, and he wasn’t even in school! Teacher added two A’s and an F. One of the F’s was given for an assignment dated Saturday May 17th! Maybe I’m watching TOO closely. He has a 100 point assignment due today I know he did it… the suspense is killing me.</p>

<p>“For example, if the teacher said: “Time to hand in your homework!” it might remind your son to fish in his backpack for the homework. He might need a bit more prodding:“Did you check in your backpack?””</p>

<p>I did talk to her 1st week of school about seating options that might discourage disruptive behavior (she’s apparently tried MANY options; last week la ended up on the floor… which led to mother missing assignment, another F. I talked to her about how helpful keeping the online progress up to date is. she’s gotten better, but “this Saturdays assignment” was NOT posted. He actually spent this Saturday morning in “Saturday School” $40.</p>

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<p>Why does he need to be able to apply to a UC or a CSU? Maybe it would be best for him to eventually apply to community colleges and then transfer to a UC or CSU after he graduates. Presumably then he’ll also be more organized.</p>

<p>I think it’s asking a lot of a teacher – who is responsible for lots of students – to be expected to give your S special reminders to check his backpack, etc. for homework that is being handed in.</p>

<p>It is great that your son is improving with his organizational skills. Seems, though, that you are spending a lot of time and effort trying to compensate for his lack of organization. I don’t see the problem with his being on track to start at community college. Lots of bright students do that, excel in community college, and transfer to good 4-year colleges after getting their associates. </p>

<p>I’ve seen bright students do this who are immature or have LDs or other problems that depressed their gpas.</p>

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<p>This is a TOUGH situation.</p>

<p>I am a lot like your son…get As on stuff that I turn in. However, if you turn in half the assignments…that’s still an F. Procrastination, disorganization, etc. all to blame though smarts are certainly not (I got ~2300 on the SAT). </p>

<p>I got into a lot of good colleges as I was smart enough to skate by in HS. However my parents recognized my lack of organization and sent me packing straight to the state school, where my poor organization combined with resentment got me grades that, well, let’s just say aren’t worth paying even in-state tuition for.</p>

<p>If your son is smart he may resent you for suggesting community college or some “lower” option for 2 yrs to help him improve his organizational skills. Also, many smart students get depressed at community college (esp. ones that are a little emotionally immature) because the classes are not challenging/many students are not motivated/their friends are off living on their own/they are scared of the social situation of transferring/etc.</p>

<p>So you know his attitude is not going to fly in college, esp. a rigorous one like a UC. But you know he thinks he deserves a chance to try. </p>

<p>I would say the most important thing is for him to learn on his own…it’s great that he’s making improvements…that’s what matters. Improvements HE makes, by himself, not with special accomodations from teachers or you. </p>

<p>After you leave him alone, what happens, happens. If he gets the grades to go to a UC, let him try it out for a yr but be sure he knows that he needs to get organized. Set stringent requirements on attending class/completing all assignments. If he doesn’t do well, pull him out to a CC to get his act together. </p>

<p>If he doesn’t get the grades to go to a UC (your fear), well, that might avoid conflict altogether and be the best thing!! He won’t feel like you “took away” his opportunities or that he is being punished, and he will get the extra years he needs to organize himself.</p>

<p>So in conclusion, stop hovering. He will earn his place into what will be the best fit for him next yr…if he can shape up, maybe that means he can succeed at a UC. If he can’t, well, that probably means it was better for him to wait a year or two anyway.</p>

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<p>All true, thanks. </p>

<p>I m not AGAINST a CC, but he would be very disappointed, in part because he has worked very hard in order to be able to play soccer in college. THAT is how he identifies himself. Oh well, you reap what you sow, and I think our CC’s soccer team is alright. Not unlike at school, he stood out early because of talent, but didn’t have the work ethic to EXCEL much until lately. Then it was ALMOST too late. Just got a big second chance, and made it onto a pretty good term, after spending a few years on "B "teams or worse. Like other parents I am also concerned about how the setting will influence him. It’s when he is with other disruptive kids that he is at his worst. </p>

<p>I have not asked the teacher to remind him about homework. I only told her how helpful it was when teachers keep the online progress reports up to date.
Not really thinking about a UC, but a CSU doesn’t seem out of reach. Their formula’s seem like his SAT’s might balance his grades, but I too, am not convinced he’ll be ready. He’s actually mentioned wanting to go to a 2 year college, so maybe a tech school is what we should be looking for. I don’t suppose College Con will be a great resource for that.</p>

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<p>I agree with Northstarmom. He may be extremely bright, but he must have excellent time management and organizational skills to SUCCEED in college. There are countless threads in this forum of very bright students floundering in college away from home because they were disorganized and/or unmotivated. College is like the real world; you will not always be there for your son. Professors and administrators will treat him like an adult. If he doesn’t hand in homework, the professors won’t email him with warnings. They fail students every semester. He needs to fix this problem SOON.</p>

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<p>Yes setting makes a big difference to me…</p>

<p>What do you do when you feel like the best option academically for your kid isn’t the one with the best academic “setting”? I.e. two years at a CC is great in theory, but you can’t deny that many people rise to the level of their peers/that learning from your peers is an important part of developing “self” motivation?</p>

<p>My guess is that you should research into CCs or less prestigious universities if your son does not make the cutoff for UC/CSU…some may be filled with slackers but more competitive ones may be filled with working moms, etc. I know there is a sub set of my university that has night classes that are filled mostly with soldiers, working parents, people who could not afford full time boarding at a university, that demographic, rather than the slacker kid who couldn’t get into college. It might do him well to be in classes with these kinds of people, it might really teach him to work hard and appreciate what he has.</p>

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<p>“If your son is smart he may resent you for suggesting community college or some “lower” option for 2 yrs to help him improve his organizational skills. Also, many smart students get depressed at community college (esp. ones that are a little emotionally immature) because the classes are not challenging/many students are not motivated/their friends are off living on their own/they are scared of the social situation of transferring/etc.”</p>

<p>If her son feels that way, then he probably then would be smart enough and motivated enough to find a way to fix his organizational problems.</p>

<p>Younger S is a very smart kid who had lots of organizational and procrastination problems including ADD. I spent lots of my time and money trying to help him. This included paying out of pocket for organizational counseling.</p>

<p>S didn’t fix the problem untll he was applying to college and I was very clear that if he had to start at a CC, that was fine with me since CCs were excellent places for smart people with his kind of organizational problems. </p>

<p>After taking a gap year and working for Americorps – which taught him that organizational skills are required in the real world – S went to a LAC that he loves, and that he had to pay for the first year of since H and I wouldn’t pay for college until he proved to us that our investment was worth it (This is because due to organizational/procrastination, S almost flunked his second semester of senior year in h.s.). He’s a rising junir with a 3.45 overall college gpa , a 3.75 for the semester and clearly has found ways of handling his organizational problems.</p>

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<p>^^Sounds good. In fact he might take a Photoshop class at one this summer. He’s been self. teaching (schools youngest editor; graphics editor for the yearbook, and feels he’ll learn faster.</p>

<p>And I have to add a great kid;Almost all the conflicts with the teacher are about him not being in his seat when the bell rings, and stuff of that nature. He was rookie of the year on his schools varsity soccer team as a freshman, “All section” as a sophmore. Plays or practices maybe 6 hours a week, almost year round. No drugs, ETOH, truancy, etc.Earlier this year this was much angst because all his friends “cheated” on homework and he wouldn’t. It was nice when test scores supported his values.</p>

<p>Northstarmom, thank you for sharing. I have your sons stories in mind.</p>

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<p>I know with my kids I can’t watch those on-line things too closely because they fluctuate wildy. Also more than once the kids have told me that when push comes to shove the teachers weight certain tests more than others and it’s not reflected in the on-line grade. Generally my kids will tell me what they expect to get in class and pretty much they always do. I’d be sure that he really has a C- average going and then take it from there. The other oddity that happens is sometimes the grades will show an F for a particular assignment or quiz until the teacher “replaces” whatever they put in with the actual grade when they grade the papers. The kids tells me this happens (alot) with homework. The scores don’t go in for a week or two and I might think they never turned it in. Don’t know if that is a system error or a teacher error. My kids can always spot the abnormalities so maybe go through it with your son if you haven’t already.</p>

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<p>Can’t he just sit down in his seat when the bell rings? I don’t think the teacher is asking for too much here.</p>

<p>Every minute she has to take to discipline your kid is time she is not teaching the rest of the class.</p>

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<p>I could be wrong, but if the kid has a hard time sitting still in his seat, does he suffer ADHD? He seems pretty hyper…</p>

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<p>If he’s been diagnosed with ADHD, have you asked the school to evaluate him for special education services? He would then have an individual education program (IEP) that could address his issues and perhaps include some of the accomodations suggested by marite. Granted, teachers don’t always follow IEPs, but it’s better than nothing. I don’t think anything short of an IEP will help with the math teacher–she sounds like a real pain.</p>

<p>What kinds of disruptions is he causing? He may need to have a functional behavior assessment. If the problems are only in math class, is the teacher doing anything to provoke him? </p>

<p>My son’s IEP includes a “chill pass” that he can use if he thinks he’s about to lose his temper. The teacher is required to let him leave the classroom immediately to go see the school psychologist, where he cools down and discusses the situation before returning to class. The teacher is not allowed to penalize him for leaving the room, though he can still be written up for any misbehavior occurring before he leaves. That chill pass has prevented a number of suspensions. He hasn’t had to use it for several years, but just knowing it’s available helps him. Most of his classmates don’t know he’s in special ed, and he still gets to take honors and IB classes.</p>

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<p>What do you hope to accomplish with this note?</p>

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<p>^^ He does have “ADHD”, and though he is treated, sitting is still hard. Other disruptive behaviors include "shouting out whatever is in his head " , not always related to class. One detention was for telling another kid to shut up, apparently among other “disrespectful” things. </p>

<p>Its a small Christian school, so there is no school psych, no IEP, pretty strict, but he has been there for 10 years, and they are usually understanding when we talk. Looking for solutions and suggestions from me… I am a child Psychiatrist… “the cobbler’s kids”…) When he was much younger, daily notes home. Nothing by way of extra time. Often by way of “preferential seating”</p>

<p>The note to the guidance counselor is for another perspective. He seems okay in his other six classes, this teacher is in her first year of teaching, and often says it’s her “fault” for not being more “consistent”, so she’s making up for it now, and my son gets the other kids going. She is having trouble with a few boys in that class. I know the other kids don’t deserve this.</p>

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<p>This first year of teaching…that’s a tough one…learning how to keep class order and to teach, to boot. I suspect that she will be “strict and particular” from day one in her classes next year and set rules and boundaries up early. From her vantage point–she tried being the “nice, popular teacher” and the boys took advantage of her. It’s hard to step in at this late date and change behavior, but obviously she is trying.</p>

<p>Do the other teachers ignore his shouting and riling up the rest of the class or does he not do such behavior in their classes? That would be an answer I’d be interested to hear.</p>

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<p>I suspect this is where I will be in a few years with my 7th grader, who is also ADHD, and has huge organizational challenges. The teachers who put assignments and grades online in an up-to-date fashion are a godsend, and those who don’t, are a nightmare. </p>

<p>One thing that has been suggested to me is having my son use his daily binder, and requiring him to get each teacher, at the end of each period, to sign off daily that he has (1) written down that night’s homework correctly, and (2) turned in whatever was due that day (or not). I don’t know how well this will work for high school (although I know a sophomore who does it) but I plan to meet with all my S’s 8th grader teachers at the beginning of the school year in August and try to get them agree to it. </p>

<p>However, as many have pointed out, this is a crutch, and will not be available in college, and at some point a kid has to figure out how to keep himself on track. </p>

<p>As for the conflicts with the teacher, that’s a toughie. In terms of assignments missed when he is sent out of class, does he have a buddy in the class who could let him know what he missed? </p>

<p>For what its worth, I have found that some teachers just “click” for my son, appreciate the gifts he brings to the class (creativity, humor, etc…), and are slightly more tolerant of his indiscretions. Others are much more “by the book”, and he always does worse in those classes. Sounds like your son’s math teacher falls into the latter category. </p>

<p>Ok, I just read your last post – first year teaching. Yes, consistency is extremely important for ADHD kids. If the standards of behavior in the class are changing, thats got to be extremely hard for your son.</p>

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<p>The “first year teacher” would also send a warning shot to me. It’s interesting watching 3 kids go through the same school with for the most part the same teachers. There are a couple out of the dozens and dozens over the years that consistently come up where my kids really struggle. Interestingly my youngest’s (with one of the struggle teachers) class ended up “ahead” of the other section so his teacher has been showing movies this week, my son was really mad because a bunch of kids asked her to use the time (waiting for the other section to catch up) to review one section that they all stuggled with. She refused. Whoah Nelly. I’d think in the OPs case, I might just mosey on over to the school and see what’s really hapening…most certainly I would if this is the only class he’s stuggling with. Honestly, if there is a major personality conflict going on it can lead to all kind of troubles. Been there, done that too with S1. They were like two dogs in a fight (the teacher and my son). Big 'ole personality conflict and neither one would give an inch. I actually asked the principal to haul both of them in his office and not let them out until they reached a compromise on how they were going to get along. But in your son’s case and what you are specifically upset about, you’re never going to know if he’s performing in every single other class unless you stick your nose in. You can always get your nose right out, too.</p>