<p>If given the opportunity to cheat, more people will cheat. Having an Honor Code govern the students might seem more mature and exhibit greater moral standards, but realistically, it's not the best way to go.</p>
<p>I went a school near Hampden-Sydney and Washington and Lee which also had an honor code, but didn't make the list.</p>
<p>The thing I always laughed about was that Hampden-Sydney, students just dumped their bookbags outside on the lawn on their way into the dining hall. It was funny to see these bags stuffed with valuable texbooks and walkmans and so forth, just lying on the lawn with no one's name on anything. An Honor Code that works is a wonderful thing.</p>
<p>(I never locked my room, left books in the library, etc).</p>
<p>Cookiemom, Would your son say that students, by and large, lived by the honor code? Clearly there are some here who believe it is not possible.</p>
<p>my impression is that the schools where an honor code worked are schools that attracted people who were ready to take responsibilty for their behavior. THey don't expect the school to be parents or police, but treat them as responsible adults.
What a surprise students often respond in kind.</p>
<p>It is always amazing to me how so-called "official ranking lists" of one sort another lead to predictable reactions. Those left out feel slighted and a little outraged that they were not included, while those on the list are proud and relieved that they made it. Even when we know the methodology used is rather arbitrary (as in this case with the Templeton Foundation), it is still hard to avoid these emotions. It is very tempting to end up defending or promoting our college based on such a ranking list, even when the list may be of dubious value. I don't mean to question or denigrate the individual stories that have been shared on this thread regarding the honesty displayed by students at various places. I think we need to hear more stories of the type of mutual respect communicated in these stories. Rather I am just struck by how sensitive we all are with rankings of any sort.</p>
<p>I think that's a good question. I think that schools (whether on this list or not) that have a strong honor code create an environment which promotes honesty. Expectations and peer pressure are powerful incentives. I also agree that these schools attract students who are more likely not to cheat in the first place. Is there still some cheating going on in these schools? There must be, but I would guess that it is rare. The schools have had these codes for years. If they didn't work, they probably would have eliminated them.</p>
<p>At my son's school (on the list), students are compelled to be honest by the severe nature of punishment resulting from an offense, academic or social. You don't want to go in front of the honor council because those peer judges can be brutal.</p>
<p>While Duke may have had some problems with their honor code, I daresay Duke attracts very different students than say Earlham or Reed. ( I am using Reed as example only because I know the most about it- I am not trying to be defensive only trying to explain why I think it does work)
Reed doesn't have grade inflation, and many students don't know their grades till end of term. Students are attracted to the school for several reasons but strongest among them is the opportunity to attend one of the most academically rigourous in the country, but with grade deflation. They aren't there for the grades, if I need to put it any more bluntly. So.. if they aren't there for the grades, then they must be there for the instruction, and "cheating" is not going to help that end, only hurt it.
Since Reed ( and several other liberal arts colleges) have the highest % of students attaining Ph.ds( which do have proctored exams) of any schools in country , I would extrapolate that having the freedom to take your exam on the grass or in your room hasn't hurt the academic acheivement of most Reed students.
I also want to emphasize that if the test is written well,( depending on the subject) it doesn't matter if it is even an open book exam or an exam that allows you to use your notes IMO.</p>
<p>EK, my son says when you come to Reed, they say 'Look to your right; look to your left; most of you won't be here in 4 years'. Is that true? They used to say that at Swat as well until a decision was made to allow people to graduate and in time. And there is some grade inflation at Swat as well, as Mini's charts show.</p>
<p>I have never heard that said, did he actually hear it or is it one of those things that is associated but not true?
What I have heard them remind students when they come to Reed is that while they may very well ( and many were) at the very top of their class in high school, some will now be in the middle of the class, and some may naturally have to be at the "bottom". A shock to some, but most learn to enjoy the challenge and the relief of not having to be the sharpest pencil in the cup anymore.</p>
<p>I think saying "most" won't be here in 4 years is an overstatement. While many do change schools for whatever reason, virtually everyone in my daughters freshman dorm is still at Reed and is graduating on time. (She took a year off and is returning next year, another friend completely changed majors)
However because it is a very small school, some decide that it is too small for them despite the attractions of the campus and of Portland. Many majors aren't offered and as Reed is smaller than her sisters high school, the course selection in your major may be hard to schedule with desired classes in other depts.
While there is some diversity and they are trying to bring more to campus, it still seems to have the reputation as a school for *rich, snotty, white kids *. ( this is the Portland reputation among some- they acknowledge that the students are bright- but they look at the tuition and figure they must all be rich- I suppose other areas may have the same reputation when you haven't been through financial aid and found out that a private school may actually cost less than instate public- the white part however is still definitely dominant- I don't think the kids are snotty- but they are young and can be definitely full of themselves)
This tends to grate on you after a while, and while my daughter attended K-12 schools with essentially the same demographic ;) I think for me, and for other students who have enjoyed a more complex educational background K-12, would decide that they wanted a more diverse college campus as well.</p>
<p>EK, my son might have just heard the hype, that's all. You know, like Marite once said (I tend to quote her because she is funny) 'the cat's smile is gone but it seems to hang in the air even after the cat is gone' or something like that. :)</p>
<p>Reed is extremely, extremely rigorous, that's what he was telling me.</p>
<p>I wouldn't take anything that comes out of The Templeton Foundation seriously.</p>
<p>Cookiemom, I agree. When institutions make honor a priority good things happen.
Mr. Templeton was one of the first investors to gain access to foreign equity markets. Foreigners considered him an honorable and trustworthy person. As a result, he was given access to foreign markets long before others. Today, he is perhaps the most respected investor in foreign markets.</p>
<p>Is anyone else searching for a school with an honor code that is alive and well? How much weight should one give an honor code in the selection process?</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure every school claims to have an active honor code.</p>
<p>Yes, they can make the claim. But are these the 35 schools where the code is alive and well?</p>
<p>"If given the opportunity to cheat, more people will cheat. Having an Honor Code govern the students might seem more mature and exhibit greater moral standards, but realistically, it's not the best way to go."</p>
<p>Do parents here really believe this?</p>
<p>Alpha,
I can only speak from a personal perspective since D attended a secondary school with an honor code...and is now at Haverford. I'm sure there will be exceptions and find the temptation to cheat too great...but, overall, why attend a school with such a high standard of governance if one does not or will not abide? In high school, D had timed take home exams...and she had the same at Haverford. It it interesting, her friends do take the code seriously.</p>
<p>Well, the honor code at my college changed me.</p>
<p>Before I went to college, I was already a basically honest person. But it wasn't from any personal sense of integrity-- it was mostly because I was a "good girl" and couldn't deal with the shame if I got caught. Certainly, that fear was exacerbated at college where, like chloe notes, it would be humiliating to be called in front of a jury of my peers.</p>
<p>But as I lived in that environment of respect and trust, I really valued it. It's an incredible way to live, even if it's just for a short time in a microcosm. I had a lot of time to reflect on how nice it was to live like that, and how much pride I had in being a part of it. I started to change: from a person who was honest because she couldn't bear to be caught, to person who was honest because it felt right, and because I took pride in being a person of integrity. My motivation was more intrinsic. I know that sounds schmaltzy, but it was something remarkable and worthwhile. And it stayed with me, long after I was away from the code or the consequences for breaking it.</p>