<p>I think it’s what you make of it. They have every right to be arrogant. </p>
<p>I don’t care if they think I’m “sub-par” in the end of the day we’re both getting the same degree expect I didn’t spent 30k a year my first two years. Jokes on them</p>
<p>This transfer stigma has been a minor dilemma for me, and I have devised strategies to destroy it:</p>
<ol>
<li>Put them in their place [lose-lose]</li>
<li><p>If you were admitted to HYPSMC, would you still choose Cal? Looking at the stats of admitted freshmen, specifically under the “Accepted/Rejected” part, rarely do I see successful applicants to HYPSMC as well. And if they did get into HYPSMC, it is much less likely for them to SIR to Cal. Using their same framework of generalization, they’re mostly HYPSMC rejects. How does that sound? HYPSMC rejects. Apparently that’s what some HYPSMC students think of Cal students in the following thread: ■■■■■■/1xPYD6V . But whether we applied to HYPSMC or not, we as Cal transfers are affected by this stigma, so this is a lose-lose scenario. This is effective in trivializing the transfer stigma by comparing it to the pain of the HYPSMC reject stigma, but it’s a M.A.D. strategy.</p></li>
<li><p>Context of the state [win-win]</p></li>
<li><p>“But that’s why Cal needs to stop admitting undeserving students so we can raise the school’s prestige and reputation!” Valid argument, if Cal were privatized. But UC Berkeley, as of right now, is owned by the people of the state of California. And as far as I know, the UCs were meant to provide quality education for the people of the state. And guess what? California community college students are people of the state too. I know it sucks to see the dumbest person you know back in high school tread the same college ground you worked hard your whole life to get into. Let me just say that if not for community college, I don’t know if I’d ever get to attend college at all: Immigrating to America with no money, not knowing where to live, not knowing anyone, not knowing much about America, being forced to work, having no time to live while I supported my parents who are too old to get a job. In community college, I noticed that many of my classmates were worse off than I was. I was able to get a car with my job, while some had to go through 4 hour bus rides to go to school. Some were working double jobs. Some have grown old working their entire lives. Many were young mothers. In each class, we’ve had a veteran. The UC system is obligated by law to provide continuing education for these people. The “prestige” of UC Berkeley is a result of rising demand for education, the selection/rationing device used to handle the scarcity of available seats (e.g. SAT, essay), the cumulative advantage of being known for its selectivity and for attributions to particular achievements (achieved by faculty and graduate students mostly). Prestige can help financially by attracting OOS applicants, and it may help increase the quality of education by attracting the best educators; but to deny the aforementioned people of California (citizens, immigrants, undocumented) a chance at a Cal education for prestige is to deny Cal’s principle of existence. Indeed, privatization has been discussed as an option, but that is another topic: ■■■■■■/1rPZFPY</p></li>
<li><p>Embrace the challenge [lose-win]</p></li>
<li><p>Work hard. Learn your stuff. Get better grades. Get rich. Win the Putnam math competition. Win PenApps. Win hard.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>@sarahchun why is number 3 lose-win?</p>
<p>Ok…so according to these last couple posts communty college transfer students were slackers that didn’t do anything in high school quote “the dumbest person you ever knew” and then somehow they got into a world class school like UCLA or UCB? This logic makes no sense at all. A high school student can be admitted if they have a low GPA but make up for it in leadership and extracurricular activities, or maybe test scores. But to be admitted as a transfer, you HAVE to have a competitive GPA. There is no way around this and I think most UCs do not even care about your personal statement, just your grades. Honestly I want to know which courses and cccs y’all went to because it was definetly not a breeze for me. Juggling work, science classes, commuting every day? Must be nice to go to school and get straight As with no effort.</p>
<p>edit:// For the record, a lot of the students admitted as freshmen got in because they were prividged enough to. Most students I knew in high school who entered top universities had tutors and took thousand dollar SAT prep courses. Are these individuals more deserving to get a higher education than those who were less fortunate? Almost everyone I’ve met at a ccc went this route to avoid debts, or maybe they were not ready to leave home. Some students had just arrived to the US and had to take numerous ESL classes to catch up to college level reading, others were undocumented students and could not afford to attend a 4 year university right away. Its extremely ignorant to assume that someone transferred from a ccc because they weren’t “smart enough” to get into UCLA from high school. Transfer students have very diverse backgrounds and to erase that and say that they took the “easy route” to college is very insulting and thoughtless. </p>
<p>Based on my memory of what UC Statfinder had when it was up, CC->UCB transfers probably have similar average UCB GPAs as those who entered UCB as frosh.</p>
<p>I don’t understand how transfer students are less deserving. I know for my major transfer admissions are more selective than freshman. </p>
<p>I originally went to CC because I didn’t have anyone to guide me in the application process. I left home my junior year and at 16 had a full time job to pay my rent. I only graduated because my friends parents stayed on top of
me to see it through. I didn’t have parents guiding me or helping me find where to apply, what major I wanted, etc. so I enrolled at CC while in high school so I could earn credits for both and work more. I had plenty of hiccups along the way, dropping school entirely on two occasions to work 2 jobs instead. </p>
<p>Once I graduate from university I will already have >10 years in the work force. It’s not major related, but at least I have demonstrated my ability to do work. And I’ll have the same degree as the self-righteous freshman admit who thinks I didn’t deserve to get in. </p>
<p>So I’ll take that job right there. And let them pay their student loans with their smug sense of self worth and see how far they get. </p>
<p>How would they even know unless you told them? Also, it’s not like the degree has the words “transfer” stamped on them.</p>
<p>As for your transcript indicating you’ve only spent 2 years, I have never, ever heard of an employer demanding transcripts. Not to mention they won’t give a crap. </p>
<p>I agree @BurntCorpse re: employers. But assuming you go through a head-hunting firm, they may wish it uploaded just to verify your major. For instance, if you say you graduated magma cum laude with a degree in CS from UCB or something else that is vitally important to Silicon Valley they would probably want to verify. But that would be the only reason.</p>
<p>The “most UCs do not even care about your personal statement, just your grades.” is indeed true since this happened to me as I was .3 under average of that year AND I didn’t go to a local CC.</p>
<p>=== 2012-2013 ===
Time to graduate for Freshman (with average GPA of 3.21 upon graduation)
Within 4 years: 73%
Within 5 years: 88%
Within 6 years: 92%
Time to graduate for Transfer (with average GPA of 3.14 upon graduation)
Within 2 years: 60%
Within 3 years: 85%
Within 4 years: 91%</p>
<p>=== 2011-2012 ===
Time to graduate for Freshman (with average GPA of 3.25 upon graduation)
Within 4 years: 60%
Within 5 years: 88%
Within 6 years: 90%
Time to graduate for Transfer (with average GPA of 3.17 upon graduation)
Within 2 years: 58%
Within 3 years: 86%
Within 4 years: 89%</p>
<p>=== 2010-2011 ===
Time to graduate for Freshman (with average GPA of ??? upon graduation)
Within 4 years: 70%
Within 5 years: 87%
Within 6 years: 90%
Time to graduate for Transfer (with average GPA of ??? upon graduation)
Within 2 years: 58%
Within 3 years: 83%
Within 4 years: 90%</p>
<p>Sources: <a href=“http://www.aim.ucla.edu/pdf/UGProfile12-13.pdf”>http://www.aim.ucla.edu/pdf/UGProfile12-13.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://www.aim.ucla.edu/pdf/UGProfile11-12.pdf”>http://www.aim.ucla.edu/pdf/UGProfile11-12.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://www.aim.ucla.edu/pdf/UGProfile10-11.pdf”>http://www.aim.ucla.edu/pdf/UGProfile10-11.pdf</a></p>
<p>Another source to consider (but not used): <a href=“http://www.aim.ucla.edu/progress.aspx”>http://www.aim.ucla.edu/progress.aspx</a>
*Interesting to note that there is a discrepancy with UCLA’s data for number of admits when compared to equivalent year for their data on number of graduates for transfer students. An example is 2010 number enrolled transfer admits were 3425, but for their graduation statistic its only 3221 students. This discrepancy did not exist for freshman admitted students (well there were 10ish students missing, but not as much as transfer students).</p>
<p>I’m not positive, but I believe for transfer students gpa resets upon entering UCLA. If the gpa for transfer students resets and it’s the only gpa considered for their “completion gpa,” then the difference between freshman and transfer student’s completion gpa could be attributed to difficulty of upper division course compared to lower division (an assumption though). </p>
<p>The greatest difference for graduation is at the 4-year mark for freshmen and 2-year mark for transfers. I can speak of only from personal experience, but even after completing nearly all the required courses for ucla to transfer it still feels like I need to catch up. By looking at a sample 4-year plan for my major it looks like I’m already behind about a quarter and a half (about 20 units). Again, this is just a guess as to why there is discrepancy based on my experience.</p>
<p>Overall, upon face value it does seem freshman entrants does slightly better than transfer students, but I don’t think it’s a meaningful difference. So it maybe true that transfer students had an easier time getting in, all in all it seems like the admission staff did an excellent job of picking out transfers that could perform similarly to it’s freshman entrants.</p>
<p>Side note: I’m not sure why certain freshman entrant students get the impression that transfer students are less capable academically, but let them think whatever they want. I’m more concerned that roughly only 60% of transfer students graduate within 2 years.</p>
<p>Love the post, @jonjon03 . </p>
<p>Thx @jonjon03 . Great stuff. I think the discrepancy mainly has to do with STEM. There are so many more requirements and so many classes piggyback on others (in terms of prerequisites). For many transfers, the first quarter can almost be a wash if key courses are filled. </p>
<p>On a side note, I’m not sure what all those SAT scores are doing in the transfer section.</p>
<p>I would slightly be irked but without my cc, I wouldn’t know as much as I know today. I had so many troubles during that time, that college applications didnt matter to me. But going the cc route definitely taught me to prepare and dedicate myself to my classes, and saved me a great amount of money. I would have no doubt have failed out of uni with debt.
So be proud of what youve accomplished and in the end internships>gpa anywhere.</p>