<p>I am posting on the Parent's Forum because I trust all my fellow parent poster's advice.</p>
<p>My DS is a Junior. He has taken 3 years of Latin.. 1 year in middle school and 2 in HS. He is not taking it this year as he is leaving to go to a school in Vermont 2nd semester and they didn't have Latin. He said he would take Latin 4 next year, but now he is thinking maybe not. He is loving NOT having Latin this year, as it has always been his most challenging class, never gotten anything above a B and mostly B-'s. I have my concerns about him taking it next year... since he has been without it for a year. But, if he takes a 4th year he may be able to test out of requirements in college. He is going to talk to his GC about it, but they always recommend 4 years if possible. </p>
<p>He will still have a very rigorous schedule without it, Science, English, History heavy, but he already has a strike against him because he will only be in Pre-Calc next year instead of Calc. He wants to major in Philosophy/Religion and not looking at Ivy's or top 10-15. </p>
<p>So, opinions, advice, examples of experiences with NOT taking 3 years.</p>
<p>It will depend on schools he will be applying to. Generally 3 years is usually enough, but since for him one of those years was in middle school, it might be risky - many colleges don’t count middle school language classes.</p>
<p>Many, many colleges have a language requirement. My opinion is that it is definitely worth it to place out of a language in college if at all possible, or to satisfy the requirements for study abroad (this does not apply to Latin, I suppose - but there might be an opportunity abroad to analyze texts, especially as a Religious Studies major). There may be additional opportunities to become an assistant to a professor, as students proficient in Latin are rare. I vote for conitnuing with the language - it may be delaying gratification, but it is worth it!
Additionally, if the college requires a modern language, the extra Latin may prepare him to pick up a modern language more easily.
For students who really are terrible at languages, I would recommend the easiest language to learn - Sign Language!</p>
<p>All else being equal, having 4 years of language will make him a stronger candidate than someone with 3 years. That said I share your concern that the gap of 9 months between Latin 3 and Latin 4 will make the course much more difficult for him than it would be otherwise. It’s a very hard language for those who don’t naturally excel in languages, and a poor grade will not help his application to more selective colleges. So in the end it depends on whether he’s willing to follow a self study program between January and September. Latin is the one language where structured self study works well.</p>
<p>It really depends on the colleges they apply to and their intended major. My D is a musical theatre major and only had 3 yrs. of a language (Latin) including 1 yr. in middle school and it didn’t make a bit of difference during application time. S intends to major in music and will only have 3 yr of formal Spanish in HS - but he is bilingual, if that makes a difference. None of their intended schools required 4 yr of language.</p>
<p>So my daughter hated her FL class. She was just like your son, one credit obtained in MS and then 2 more years in HS. That one class took so much time for her because she refused to not get an A and it certainly did not come easy. Her transcript reflects 3 years of language, which I suspect your son’s is the same way. Now, here is my point. Her dream program said the ideal candidate will have 4 years of FL and a laundry list of other things from GPA to rank to test scores. She was bringing to the table 6 courses of math and 6 courses of sciences, 14 APs, etc. Something had to give and she opted for FL to be the lamb. She was accepted in this program with very competitive admissions (Liberal Arts based…not math and science) As long as your son demonstrates that he put a class in its place that is of a high academic standard, it is a non-issue. (ie, no study hall in lieu of FL) JMO</p>
<p>And just to add…her application had to be strong because by the program’s own admission in her acceptance letter, “early offers of admissions are only going out to our strongest of applicants.” (and I am not saying that to be braggy, but to drive the point home that IMO, FL is not the golden key to admissions…frankly, I think it is the first place you should bend to accomodate other courses…unless of course you want to major in said language or some other FL based major)</p>
<p>I think it all depends where the student wants to apply to. My d will have 3 credits in Spanish. So far, it is a yes on 5 out of 5 applications. We are waiting for five more. Not all colleges even offer Latin so it doesn’t necessarily help one place out of anything. Using the popular refrain- check with the colleges.</p>
<p>This is the kicker…as long as your student places something with equal or greater academic value you will be fine. For a math/sci kid, AP comp sci would probably fit the bill. My son is actually a math/sci kid whose first choice actually does recommend a 5th year of a language. He struggled with the decision. He can do it, but it doesn’t come easy. He spoke twice with admissions during his Jr year to weigh this option, giving them specific examples to his transcript of his classes and ECs. He was told there would be no further academic value in admissions for him in any other technical/math/sci classes. He could take them, add to his GPA, but they wouldn’t make him a stronger candidate. For them the fifth year made him a stronger candidate. Many students successfully get into this school with four. Many of them probably have history APs my son doesn’t…perhaps it will weigh out. He did opt for the fifth year. I can say that over that jump from the forth to fifth year, he is really enjoying the class now.</p>
<p>I suggest calling a few ‘target’ schools and asking, being very specific about his classes, grades, even ECs. They may give you a much clearer picture.</p>
<p>Many colleges want three years of foreign language; some (but not all that many) prefer four.</p>
<p>One important question is whether the colleges that he wants to apply to will consider the Latin study he has completed so far as three years or two. </p>
<p>In my experience, colleges generally mean “foreign language through level 3” when they say “three years of foreign language,” rather than meaning “three years of foreign language taken in high school.” But it wouldn’t hurt to ask a few admissions offices. </p>
<p>My son had no difficulty being admitted to a flagship state university that required two years of foreign language even though he had taken Spanish 1 and 2 in middle school and Spanish 3 in high school (three years total, but only one in high school). However, this was his own state’s flagship university, so his guidance counselor was able to advise him on the fine points of the university’s requirements. If it had been a different college, he would have had to ask.</p>
<p>Some very selective top colleges including H recommend 4 years of FL. My son had to stop it this year as he had to take AP Statistics for his research (out of school) needs. He plans to take Spanish 4 next year (senior).</p>
<p>WOW!! Thanks everybody for the quick responses… I knew CC wouldn’t let me down…</p>
<p>This is definitely a hard one… If my DS had a perfect transcript I wouldn’t be as concerned, but he does have a few flags. He will only replace that class with a strong class in another subject… his schedule will most likely look like this… AP BIO, Pre-Calc, Advanced honors Philosophy of Religion… this class works above AP level, AP English, AP Econ, and maybe AP Physics… he loves and excels at Science. If he took Latin, one of these classes would have to give… and he’s not sure what. He could squeeze it in but then it is going to take away his other classes and I’m sure bring down his GPA.</p>
<p>I do like the thought that he could use it to his advantage in college, and I’ve heard that Latin 4 is really just reading text… which he is better at. I don’t know what he would self-study over the summer… maybe just get a tutor over the summer to review if he decides to do it.</p>
<p>He will have 3 years of latin on his transcript… he took Latin 3. 2 years of middle school latin count as latin 1.</p>
<p>He goes to a rigorous prep school, so I’m thinking just talking to his GC and maybe his Latin teacher might be a first step… I have looked at the FL requirements from some of the schools he is interested and they all say 3 years but some recommend 4.</p>
<p>I think you are worrying needlessly. He sounds like an exceptional student. If he is determined for an Ivy or a mini-Ivy, it might be an issue, but it really won’t be anywhere else. My D asked that very question at Vassar, and they said they strongly recommend four years of a language. She plans on continuing Spanish in college but did not take it this senior year for various good reasons. So she took Vassar off her list. I have no doubt she will get into several very fine schools anyway.</p>
<p>When I said that many colleges have a language requirement, I mean that they require proficiency OR they require the student to take the language DURING COLLEGE. If a student can place out of this by demonstrating proficiency, it frees up that student to take other college classes, or to advance more in the language, or to have other opportunities related to the language.</p>
<p>I will have to say…in our son’s case the additional year was a referendum and total testament to his love for his first choice! No other single school on his list cares. He knew that. DH and I wondered how bad he really wanted it…pretty darn bad I guess. We are glad he is liking the class. If the admit doesn’t work out, he will not be sorry he took the class.</p>
<p>That is his case specifically. Continuing a foreign language is a really tough call for many students. You are doing the right thing to ask about the possible implications before he makes the decision. Then he can decide knowing how it will be viewed at some of the schools he’s interested in.</p>
<p>I’ll just add a little info here. At Michigan every student was able to take a language placement test for whatever foreign language they wanted when we came for admission, regardless of how much you actually took in HS. If you preformed well enough on this test you would be given credit for some of the classes for this language.</p>
<p>Testing out of a language based on what you did in high school would probably involve getting to an AP level class, which I know for Spanish is 5 years.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about only having three years. Unless he’s trying to get into a liberal arts program at a really good school.</p>
<p>Let me assure you that there are hundreds of universities and LACs that would be delighted to accept your son with 3 years of a language.(even if one is taken at middle school). Most of these colleges will have an FL requirement though, so he may have to take additional foreign language when he arrives.</p>
<p>My DD only took 3 years of Russian and it was a struggle every year. Her third year of Russian was a disaster. She limped through with intensive weekly tutoring with a C- for the year. For her senior year, she substituted a culinary arts class for Russian! (So you don’t necessarily have to substitute an equally “rigorous” class for your foreign language) She got accepted by 7 out 8 schools.</p>
<p>She absolutely loved her culinary arts class and is thinking of starting a catering business when she graduates. I feel sorry that she wasted 3 years in Russian; she would have benefited so much more from taking a variety of interesting electives.</p>
<p>But she does have to take 4 semesters of an FL at her university; she is taking Latin and is surprising herself (and us!) by pulling Bs so far. And she loves the class!</p>
<p>dragonboy… Is your S worried about picking up Spanish 4 after none this year? Maybe it’s not a big of deal as he thinks. My S is not looking at H… He may throw a hat in the ring at Brown… but probably not so he wouldn’t make a decision based on applying. R4emb… My S might look at Vassar… it looks like a fit for him in many ways… so, your impression based on your daughters question, was that he would not be admitted if he only had 3 years instead of 4?</p>
<p>MLBWoody… he is looking at Liberal Arts programs at pretty good schools… Do you think this 4 year requirement is seen more with the LAC’s?</p>
<p>My concern in this would not be admissions, it would be having to take more language at the college level. Ex-H and I both went to U of Michigan, and got our a**** kicked by our foreign language classes in spite of some years of high school language (different languages for each of us). I have STRONGLY encouraged my kids to stick with their foreign language and get through the AP test in high school to hopefully avoid that painful experience altogether in college. Sounds like this might be a scheduling issue for your son. But my advice is to incur some pain now to possibly avoid more pain later…</p>
<p>well I am in the Engr program at the UofM and we don’t have a language requirement, we have a “humanities” requirement. You can take these language placement exams and get credit for humanities. </p>
<p>I would guess for a Liberal Arts degree they would want u to take more language classes but I am not sure. All the info should be on the Universities’ webpages</p>