5-year graduation and grad school

[playoff]

<p>Hello. I had tremendous help from my last question, yet here comes another.</p>

<p>I am going to ASU next year. My initial plan was to double major at physics and mechanical engineering, but with the help of many great minds here, I came to conclude that I'll focus on physics, and fill up elective credits with engineering courses (if possible). This will guarantee me a four-year graduation (given that I don't suck).</p>

<p>However, I've just checked the graduation rate for ASU, which was a shocking 33%. Then a thought came to me: I can take an extra year to double major in mechanical engineering. My long term goal of life is to not stop learning until I die, and I believe that graduate school and PhD program will likely be on my way toward that goal (although they are entirely not necessary, but as I insist). </p>

<p>So here comes my questions: what do you guys think about a 5-year graduation instead of a 4-year? Is it more common than I think it is?</p>

<p>And the five-year graduation will, of course, delay my graduate school, but will it affect it in any other way?</p>

<p>My only concern is that I am already a year older than my peers, as I was held back a year when I was in 5th grade because I didn't speak English back then, which means that I'll be even older than others during my fifth year, graduate school, and PhD program. </p>

<p>A double major, grad school, AND a PhD is probably the greediest thing one can ask for, but yolo, therefore I should try to make the most out of it, right?</p>

<p>p.s. money is out of equation.</p>

[ChrisTKD]

<p>General thought - long-term planning is great but don’t get so caught up in those goals that you won’t change them completely as your interests and understanding of the subjects evolve. Take your intro Physics and intro Engineering classes and then decide.</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>Staying for 5 years won’t affect your chance at graduate school and is fairly common these days, however, double majoring won’t help you get into graduate school either, and once you start getting a PhD in one subject, chances are the other one you studied will fall by the wayside pretty quickly.</p>

<p>Also, only pursue a PhD if you want a career specifically in research. To find out if that really is what you want, make sure you participate in undergraduate research while studying for your baccalaureate. That undergraduate research will be far more important than any second major or minor that you decide to pick up, so prioritize it first.</p>

<p>Also, I believe ASU has a large number of local/commuter students and very generous admissions requirements, which would help explain a 33% graduation rate.</p>

<p>Finally, as ChrisTKD said, it is all well and good to have a plan this far out, but plans change. You may start school and realize you really aren’t interested in graduate school and research and instead you would rather start a life and make some money. Just make sure you have yourself set up so that, if you so decide, you can stop after your BS and still get a job. Many, many people think they want a PhD before they even start their BS only to figure out that they really don’t.</p>

[noimagination]

<p>

However, I’ve just checked the graduation rate for ASU, which was a shocking 33%.

Not necessarily relevant.

My long term goal of life is to not stop learning until I die, and I believe that graduate school and PhD program will likely be on my way toward that goal (although they are entirely not necessary, but as I insist).

Unless you figure on a short life expectancy, you are going to need to find a way to achieve that goal outside of school. Doesn’t sound like the greatest reason to go to grad school…do you have any exposure to research?</p>

<p>Start in MechE. Switching to physics (or double-majoring) will be easier than trying to switch the other way.</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

I came to conclude that I’ll focus on physics, and fill up elective credits with engineering courses (if possible).

To echo noimagination, engineering major and classes are usually controlled. As a physics major you may find access limited and may be unable to switch if you change your mind. Conversely, as an engineering major you are almost certainly going to be able to take physics classes or switch to a physics major with relative ease. Just so you know.</p>

<p>

So here comes my questions: what do you guys think about a 5-year graduation instead of a 4-year? Is it more common than I think it is?

The main issues with taking 5 years to graduate are all financial. That is an extra year of tuition and a delay in whatever comes after graduation, and considering that some financial aid starts to disappear after 4 years this is an issue for most people. That having been said, it is pretty common, largely due to delays in settling on a major and (in engineering) scheduling required classes. If you are focused on grad school what you really need to worry about are half years - grad programs almost always start in the fall, so graduating in December means finding something to do for 9 months until grad school starts!</p>

<p>

And the five-year graduation will, of course, delay my graduate school, but will it affect it in any other way?

No. Grad programs do not generally care how quickly you graduate - they only care about what courses you have taken, what research you have performed, and how well you have done all of it.</p>

[LLaKHigH]

<p>During sophomore year (MechE), I had convinced myself that the 5-year plan was the ‘hidden gem’ for building a strong graduate application profile and for actually enjoying my time in college. I talked to several professors and admissions directors and found that there is really no negative impacts to 5-year undergrad, other than the additional money you’ll spend and the year you’ll (sort of) lose from your “professional career.”</p>

<p>You’ll have more time to get involved in research, and have another summer to do an REU, which are of prime interest to grad admissions As was mentioned, a second undergrad major is essentially useless if you plan to attend grad school. Instead, I might recommend taking electives that pertain to your reserach interests. Most universities allow undergrads to take grad classes for some sort of credit, which will give you some exposure to that level. </p>

<p>Despite the benefits of a 5-year plan for a PhD-bound student, I ended up switching to 4-years in my senior year as a result of certain circumstances – one of which being I did research at my undergrad institution over the summer and knocked out some courses during the summers sessions, so keep that option in mind. Try to make your decsion before senior year though! Finding the right grad programs can be time consuming, and getting all the application materials (GRE, SOP, LORs, etc) together can be a challenge to do while trying to keep up with a full schedule of classes/research.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>ASU’s 4-year graduation rate is low because ASU’s baseline selectivity is not very high:
<a href=“https://students.asu.edu/freshman/requirements#freshman-requirements[/url]”>https://students.asu.edu/freshman/requirements#freshman-requirements&lt;/a&gt;
The students who barely meet the admission requirements may be more at risk of having trouble handling full course load, needing remedial courses (note that large number of sections of remedial English composition courses offered), and needing to repeat failed courses.</p>

<p>Presumably, if you are near the top of the entering class in terms of high school academic preparation, your risk of delayed graduation (i.e. taking more than 8 semesters to complete an 8 semester degree program) is less than that of the typical student.</p>

<p>Of course, taking 10 semesters to complete a 10 semester degree program is different from taking 10 semesters to complete an 8 semester degree program. But be sure to consider cost, financial aid, and scholarships if you want to do the 10 semester degree program.</p>

[NeoDymium]

<p>The graduation rate is simply a result of the fact that state schools tend to accept just about everyone.</p>

<p>MIT/Stanford/etc have a graduation rate around 98%, but that’s definitely not because they’re easier than a state school.</p>

[noimagination]

<p>

If you are focused on grad school what you really need to worry about are half years - grad programs almost always start in the fall, so graduating in December means finding something to do for 9 months until grad school starts!

Not to hijack the thread, but is this an admissions issue or just a personal scheduling issue? In other words, will an applicant’s chances be damaged by graduating after fall term and then working, traveling, etc. before starting grad school the next fall?</p>

[Colorado_mom]

<p>OP - Don’t get too hung up with long term planning just yet. Take some college courese and see what you like. I like the suggestion to start as MechE, but as a MechE grad myself I am biased ;)</p>

[RacinReaver]

<p>noimagination, I imagine more of a personal scheduling issue. I finished a semester early and wasn’t really sure what to do with my time. I wound up returning to my undergrad town and working for a professor of mine from January through the summer to keep myself busy. It was a good job for the time because it prepared me for grad school, and she was very understanding of my need to take a lot of time off for travel in the spring.</p>

[noimagination]

<p>^ Thanks for the reply.</p>