I am trying to understand how scholarships impact 529 distributions.
As I understand it, you can withdraw an amount equal to the scholarship from an 529 plan. There will be no penalty but taxes will be due on the earnings.
In by case (numbers make up for simplification), my daughter has scholarships/grants totally 15K, tuition was 10k. So 5K was taxable. Then she opted to make 4k of the 10k of non-taxable scholarships taxable to allow the maximum AOC. Let say room and board was 5k.
Therefore, she had 9K (5K+4K) of taxable scholarships and the remaining 6K was tax-free.
529 distribution = Total QEE-QEE applied to AOC-tax-free educational assistance scholarships (based on Pub 970)
= (10+5)-4-(10-4)
= 5K (basically room and board)
So my question is:
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What if any additional amounts can I withdraw from the 529 due to scholarship? My guess is the 9K that is included in income but not the remaining 6K since that was “tax advantage” and double dipping is not allowed. I understand that the earnings are taxable but that there will be no penalty.
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I have read one expert claim that the scholarship withdrawal can be done at any time and is not limited to the year the scholarship was paid. His reasoning was that there was no time requirement in the tax instructions as there is for 529 withdrawals for expenses. Thoughts? If this is allowed I would like to take withdrawals for previous years.
This makes my head spin. Any thoughts?
I’ll try to help if I can. But I am afraid you somehow lost me with what you are asking. Let me rephrase the data and questions and hopefully we can work it out. Let’s start with QEE’s.
Tuition
Required fees
Books required for the classes
Computers are now allowed, I believe, if required by the college.
The 1098T you receive in box 1 will show you how much tuition the school received from you for the calendar year. That alone can be confusing because you can pay tuition in 2016 for the 2017 tax year so the 1098 T might not have the correct amount for any given year. Most people use the box 1 number and add in books and since most people don’t have the records for books with them they just guess (as long as you can back it up later that is okay). In other words, you can claim whatever you want when you file as long as you can find the receipts later in the small chance you are audited. I know some people will disagree but just telling you what actually happens.
So, start with QEE’s.
Deduct 529 disbursements to get a subtotal.
Deduct sch/G’s to get net QEE’s That is your out of pocket expenditures. If the two items you deducted cover the QEE you lose out on the full AOC. So, good for you, you read Pub 970 and found a loophole. If you add the sch/g into the child’s income on line 7 that will allow you to get the full AOC. Yes, you have to pay taxes on the sch/g income but since the kid’s income is usually low while they are in school in most cases their income is wiped out by the standard deduction (even if the parent’s take the child’s personal exemption) so the child won’t have much tax to deal with.
Getting the full AOC is smart. Good job. It sounds like you did all that just fine but now you want to take another distribution from the 529 and do what? Distributions from 529’s are for QEE only. You want to take money out of a 529 and not use it for QEE’s? And don’t want it to be taxable? Is that what you are trying to do?
Okay, sorry if I wasn’t clear. On reflection, my post was poorly stated. So let me try again.
Pub 970 implies/states that you can withdraw an amount for QEE paid with scholarships. The withdrawal will not be subjected to the 10% penalty but the earnings part of the withdrawal will be subjected to income taxes. Makes sense since the IRS want penalties for purposely overfunding an 529 as opposing to having an overfunded 529 because of scholarships.
In my example, there are 15K of QEE (5K of which does not qualify for AOC QEE but does for 529 QEE) paid for by scholarships. In order to take the AOC, my daughter declared an additional 4K as taxable. So 9K of the scholarship was taxable and 6k was tax free.
In summary, 4K of the QEE was used for the AOC. The formula and examples in the Pub 970 calculates my adjusted QEE for tax free 529 withdrawals as 5K (Total QEE-QEE applied to AOC-tax-free educational assistance scholarships).
So how does the scholarship withdrawals work in this case?
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Can I take any additional withdrawals which would be subjected to taxes but not penalties due to scholarships?
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Can I also take a distribution related to scholarships for previous years? Pub 970 clearly states that QEE related distributions MUST be taken in the year that the QEE expense occurred. However there doesn’t seem to be the same requirement for withdrawals due to scholarships.
I don’t think you can take distributions from from a scholarship now for QEE’s incurred in previous years.
You can amend previous year tax returns if it is within the statute of limitations, generally three years, so if you had previous scholarship distributions that you did use for QEE but reported the distribution in income by mistake you can fix that by amending the prior year returns.
I don’t think that is what you are asking though.
On point:
- Can you take withdrawals from a scholarship or grant and NOT use them for QEE and avoid including it in income? It depends on the terms of the Sch/G. Generally speaking the answer is no. If you have Sch/G distributions and they are NOT used for QEE then it must be included in income in the year it was constructively received.
- You can take a distribution from a sch/g whenever it happens, in some cases you don't have a choice in when you receive the proceeds. If you use it for QEE it is not taxable income. If not, it is. You can't take a distribution this year and match it against QEE's from previous years and somehow exclude it from income.
Yes, the tax code is a mess. Yes, it needs to be simplified. Yes, it is a burden on taxpayers. No, it is not equitable. I just got off the phone with a friend who was bragging that he could have made a large amount of earnings had he charged his clients $500 per return prepared but instead he did the work for someone else so he wasn’t get paid the amount his boss was charging for his work. $500 per return is a joke. I didn’t say that to my friend but it is really sad what, in many cases, low income people get charged for their tax returns. I am not a fan at all of that industry.
Okay, I need to study Pub 970 again.
I am clear about when a scholarship/grant is taxable.
What is not clear what are the rules for taking a distribution from a 529 plan because the beneficiary received a scholarship. Also how is that scholarship based distribution effected by using QEE for the AOC and also by claiming the scholarship as income for the purpose to qualifying for the AOC.
My D starts in the fall, so I am trying to study up on this also. I think you should be able to withdraw the entire “tax-free” portion of your scholarship from the 529 without a 10% penalty. This applies even if your scholarship pays the entire college expense.
The AOC and 529 can not be used for the same college expenses.
The 529 withdrawals must occur the same year that the expense occurred. Sounds like I will definitely keep receipts for every withdrawal.
Is your D living on campus ($5K seemed very low for room&board expenses? Or living in an apartment or at home? You can also withdrawal up to the school’s estimated cost of attendance for room and board expenses from your 529.
Books, supplies, computers, software, etc. can also be used. I plan on submitting a receipt for a laptop I just purchased for D in preparation for college.
The withdrawals are subject to the income tax on earnings if you use the scholarship exception. I read someone who suggested having their daughter make the withdrawals on their income taxes. This assumes you want to give the remaining money to your D, her tax bracket is lower, and that she can file taxes independent of you. I plan on rolling any remaining money into another beneficiary since I have 5 children. You also have the option of making you or your husband a beneficiary if you have upcoming education expenses.
@jerzmaster - what do you mean by “I plan on submitting a receipt for a laptop”? Who do you submit the receipts to?
@3puppies Sorry, all I had to do was submit a form for distribution. I also have a coverdale education IRA which is what I actually submitted the reimbursement from for. I had to submit a form to the mutual fund company…no actual receipt was submitted. I have not tried to get reimbursement from a 529 account yet, but I think it is the same for my mutual fund. As far as I can tell, no receipts are needed unless I am audited.
@jerzmaster Thanks. What you wrote makes sense since I have already used the other parts of the scholarships for the AOC and for a 529 Distribution. I have read that it should be possible for making scholarship withdrawals for previous year but the article indicated that it is a gray area. You are correct that withdrawals for QEE expenses must be made in the year they occur.
You are correct that the numbers for room and board are low. I was trying to keep the numbers simple.
I have a 529 for my youngest son. He has been awarded some scholarship money. I only plan , however, to use a portion of the money to cover expenses not covered by the scholarship.