<p>What great info. Maize&Blue, thanks for clarifying. I never had calculus and
so beyond algebra all is a mystery to me. I suspect DD just wants to keep
school as uncomplicated as possible, having just witnessed brother's senior year.
Mathmom-what critical mass of kids do you have for your school system to
offer multivariate? Did parents push for this or did school system just offer it?</p>
<p>"I got a good score, my percentile was horrendous (770 got me 82 percentile)"</p>
<p>That's not a horrendous percentile. It's just that the kids who take 2C are much stronger in math. Even perfect scorers have a surprisingly low percentile. Colleges aren't stupid they know what the curve is.</p>
<p>The issue with 7th grade algebra (or, for that matter, 7th grade foreign language) showing up on a high school transcript is that not everyone gets an A.</p>
<p>I know of one boy who realized the moment he got his end-of-seventh-grade report card with that B on it that he would never be high school valedictorian the way his older sister had been. It's a bit of a discouraging thought.</p>
<p>At our high school, 7th and 8th grade subjects do NOT appear on the transcript, so it would be best to check your particular school. </p>
<p>My son took Algebra I in 7th grade and continued to get A's through AP Calculus BC in 12th grade. Most of his teachers were pretty good, some were excellent and some should have chosen another profession. Even the less competent teachers were nice, though.</p>
<p>My daughter had a different experience. She took Algebra I in 7th grade and easily got A's from a female teacher who actively encouraged girls in math and science. Then she had the worst teacher in existance for Geometry in 8th. He was condescending and cruel, and found fault with everything my daughter did. While she learned the material, she hated math all year because of this teacher's personality and unprofessional behavior. Still, she pulled a B. Hopefully, when she gets back into Algebra II in 9th grade, she will have a decent teacher.</p>
<p>I guess my point is that while student aptitude is important, the teacher is equally as important. A good teacher can bring out the best in every student. 7th graders certainly are capable of doing algebra, but it would pay to check out the teacher your child will have before making the decision.</p>
<p>" Mathmom-what critical mass of kids do you have for your school system to
offer multivariate? Did parents push for this or did school system just offer it?"</p>
<p>I think it's only five or six. There were three of them originally taking algebra 1 in 7th grade. A couple of other kids caught up with them by doing pre-calc in the summer. Someone else may have asked for it, but for once it wasn't me.</p>
<p>How important is it to be valedictorian? For some, it is indeed important, especially if scholarship money is attached to the status. But if not, then I would not worry about it.</p>
<p>My S was radically accelerated. He wanted to be. We told him if he felt comfortable being in the middle of the pack, then it was fine. If he was in the least struggling, he should drop to the next lower level. He got some B+s, some Bs as well as some As and A-s on his college courses and was as happy as could be. In some cases, the grades showed up on his transcript; in others they were recorded as Pass; This depended on whether he was registered for credit or auditing the course. I have no idea what his final GPA was (never saw the transcript that was sent to colleges). But I'm sure that his college courses and APs were more impressive than perfect As on run-of-the mill high school classes.
At any rate, he would have been bored out of his skull in less challenging classes.</p>
<p>It's not important to be valedictorian, but I think it is unhealthy for a school system to create a situation where a kid can feel that he has "ruined" his high school transcript at the age of 12.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input! I just got home after a full day of more college shopping and saw 4 pages. Wow!</p>
<p>Mari:</p>
<p>Can you explain about the transcript? Are all high school-level classes recorded and the grades included in the final GPA, not matter when they were actually taken? My S was not actually allowed to "take AP-Physics" since he was only an 8th grader. He could only audit the class, so the grade he got was not recorded anywhere on his transcript. It's as if he never took the class. But, as he took the exam, he did have a score for it. Similarly, the college classes he audited were recorded as "independent study" on his high school transcript; again, there was no record that he had taken the classes (the profs wrote a letter to his GC to inform him of his grades so the grades were somewhere in his file).</p>
<p>Obviously, every school works differently. It is a real shame, though, if a grade earned in middle school were to affect the final GPA. Does the GC mention this in the rec?</p>
<p>The kid with the unfortunate grade from 7th grade is not mine, so I don't know quite how things work.</p>
<p>In my kids' school system, there is a section on the transcript before the section for 9th grade that lists all high school courses taken in middle school or in summer sessions prior to the beginning of ninth grade. The letter grades are indicated just as they would be for high school courses taken in high school, and the grades are counted toward both the weighted and unweighted GPAs. </p>
<p>I understand that things work differently in some other school systems.</p>
<p>It is probably a good idea for every student (or the parent) to obtain a copy of the student's transcript every year to see what is on it. You may be surprised at what is and is not reported. In our school system, for example, the student's attendance record is on the transcript. In some other systems, SAT scores are on it, which infuriates kids who did better on the ACT and wish to only report their ACT scores to colleges. You may also find mistakes that need to be corrected. (And, ironically, you may find that some mistakes do not need to be corrected. For example, one marking period, about twenty absences from a particular class were incorrectly reported on my daughter's report card. But since full-day absences and tardiness are the only things reported in the attendance section on the transcript, who cares?)</p>
<p>In our school system, transcripts are given to the students annually. But if they're not given out automatically, students can request them from the school registrar (although I think the parent has to sign a transcript release form, and there may be a small fee).</p>
<p>Marian:</p>
<p>Thanks. In general, I agree it's a good thing for students to check the transcript. We do check the grade reports, but I understand that what appears on the transcript may differ from the reports parents see. </p>
<p>Some colleges do recompute GPAs (for example, some do not count 9th grade grades, let alone middle school grades); some only take into account grade for core classes (eg.g no carpentry or band or graphic arts; some take out all the weighting. And large state unis often do not recompute. So it's important to know where a student is likely to apply.</p>
<p>Can you really predict where a rising 7th grade student is likely to apply 5 or 6 years (practically half their lives) later? </p>
<p>In 7th grade, my D was very interested in medicine. That interest continued through freshman biology and came to an abrupt halt during chemistry in 10th. She did well in the class but didn't like the subject. In 7th grade my D was interested in applying to a service academy (like H) or to a school with a strong premed science program. This is the girl who now is starting at a LAC to study political science/law and ultimately get involved in politics.</p>
<p>Motherdear:</p>
<p>it depends where you live, the state of your finances, and your child's abilities. We were absolutely sure that S would not be applying to our state u, and there was not much point in his applying to out-of-state unis. Most mid-sized unis and LACs do recompute GPAs. But if we had been living in CA, there would have been a good chance of his applying to one of the UCs.</p>
<p>I think you need to check with your school district regarding the grade and the high school transcript. We are part of the second largest school district in the country and it's not done -- but it sounds like it is done elsewhere. One other point I would make is that although all my kids took 7th grade algebra, three of them took it with only 7th graders. One took it with an 8th grade class to avoid an awful teacher. It ultimately meant missing assemblies, etc. and the 8th grade kids did not like having a 7th grader in their class. It was still the right decision but it's important to consider if they will feel out of the loop with their own classmates and so forth.</p>
<p>Mimk:</p>
<p>Interesting about the 8th graders. Our school combined 7th and 8th grades for most subjects so the issue did not arise. S also went to the high school for AP-Physics and none of the kids (juniors and seniors) grumbled, except apparently when he aced tests they had some difficulty with. But he got roped into the high school science team by some juniors which he enjoyed tremendously. </p>
<p>We know of a 4th grader who was taking Honors Algebra in another district. The district sent a teacher to the elementary school as it deemed it unwise for him to go to the high school. According to the math teacher, he was learning faster than the Honors Algebra students in high school.</p>
<p>I think that you look at where the child fits in 7th grade and don't try to predict the HS path.</p>
<p>My S took Algebra in 7th grade and it was a great experience for him. For the first time he was challenged. But not as one would imagine. He had the skills to look at a problem and tell the teacher the correct answer. But that wasn't good enough for her. He would take a test, write down all the correct answers and get a failing grade. He was so used to 'coasting' that he refused to show any work. This went on for the first 10 weeks or so. It was a battle between him and the teacher. After the 10 weeks, he realized she wasn't going to give in and he would have to start documenting his logic.</p>
<p>This was better to learn in 7th grade than to wait until 8th or 9th. </p>
<p>I think that if you have a child that isn't challenged in the normal math progression, moving them into a more advanced track is the appropriate course. Letting them coast is inappropriate just as pushing them into a program that they aren't ready for is inappropriate.</p>
<p>Having said that, I do think there's an issue when you get to the SAT. You need to go back and review some geometry and algebra concepts. But a few review tests or a quick course brings it back.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Early completion of algebra puts your son on track to start calculus as a junior and perhaps study AP statistics as a senior. While this track is obvious and manageable for many students, it may not be the best for truly gifted students. </p>
<p>See the article entitled "The Calculus trap" at AoPS which discusses the pros and cons of taking calculus early. <a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php</a>
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You love math and want to learn more. But youre in ninth grade and youve already taken nearly all the math classes your school offers. They were all pretty easy for you and youre ready for a greater challenge. What now? Youll probably go to the local community college or university and take the next class in the core college curriculum. Chances are, youve just stepped in the calculus trap.</p>
<p>For an avid student with great skill in mathematics, rushing through the standard curriculum is not the best answer. That student who breezed unchallenged through algebra, geometry, and trigonometry, will breeze through calculus, too. This is not to say that high school students should not learn calculus they should. But more importantly, the gifted, interested student should be exposed to mathematics outside the core curriculum, because the standard curriculum is not designed for the top students. This is even, if not especially, true for the core calculus curriculum found at most high schools, community colleges, and universities. (continues)
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[quote]
Another danger of the calculus trap is social. Aside from the obvious perils of placing a 15 year old in a social environment of 19 year olds, there are other drawbacks to early acceleration. If ever you are by far the best, or the most interested, student in a classroom, then you should find another classroom. Students of like interest and ability feed off of each other. They learn from each other; they challenge and inspire each other. Going from ‘top student in my algebra class’ to ‘top student in my college calculus class’ is not a great improvement. Going from ‘top student in my algebra class’ to ‘average student in my city’s math club’ is a huge step forward in your educational prospects. The student in the math club is going to grow by great leaps, led and encouraged by other students.
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<p>There is no reason why a student cannot be accelerated through the curriculum and ALSO enriched outside class. We tried keeping S in regular math and enriching him outside school. It did not work because he hated regular mathl he'd already mastered it and was bored out of his skull. And his dislike of the class leached into other subjects as well. And in fact, the more enriched he was outside school, the more ädvanced he became since the enrichment was all about problem-solving and thus reinforced his algebra and geometry skills. So in 7th grade, he began precalc and continued to be enriched outisde schools. Things went on swimmingly from then on. I don't think he would have tolerated staying with grade level math, no matter how much problem-solving he did outside school.</p>
<p>No one in his college classes, by the way, objected to being in class with a 15-year old.</p>
<p>I think the author of the Calculus Trap article is deploring missing out on non-curriculum-related math activities more than deploring taking the most advanced math you can. (I have pretty extensive correspondence with him, so I think I know where he is coming from.) What he says in his article is, after all, "This is not to say that high school students should not learn calculus – they should. But more importantly, the gifted, interested student should be exposed to mathematics outside the core curriculum, because the standard curriculum is not designed for the top students."</p>
<p>i took algebra in the 7th grade and it's quite common for the top half of the honors kids to do so too at the school district where i'm from. those who fear calculus just take something else like AP Stats when junior year rolls around.</p>