<p>I don't mind the thread bump, because it helped me review some informative postings by Marite and mathmom, whose children have had to face the issue of grades and college admission profiles head on. (My oldest son is still too young for applying for that kind of college, but he is filling in grades in his high school transcript this year.) Around the world, taking something that would be regarded as "honors algebra I" in seventh grade is quite routine, so it's regrettable that United States students have to customize programs that move at that rather conservative speed. As before in this thread, I support BOTH advancing through the standard curriculum at at least the international pace (which will look like an accelerated pace to most American school officials) AND participating in less curriculum-based math activities. Some students like math competitions, others like non-competition-oriented summer programs, and some like independent math research, but all avid math students should have opportunities to go beyond the usual school curriculum.</p>
<p>lfk:</p>
<p>For students who take AP-Calc early, one possibility is to take Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra, either in a nearby college or university or through EPGY or a similar online program.
If your D does not like to take more math, however, she does not have to. The four years requirement has to do with levels of math, not the actual number of years, unless this is a high school requirement (different from college recommendations) The exception would be for a student not to be taking math for more than one year, for fear that the student would forget too much math during that period of time. So it's best to check with your high school about graduation requirements.</p>
<p>I think our requirement is 4 years of any kind of math. She is getting A's so it's probably fine. I am trying to get AP stats added to our curriculum as it is the math department's turn for curriculum review. I don't know if that would benefit my D, but I'm sure that there are students who tend toward the social sciences who might rather take stats than a second year of calc, or maybe some would like to take stats in addition to calc.</p>
<p>DS1 took Alg I (the real thing) as a 10 yo 6th grader at a time when radical acceleration in our school system was highly unusual. Alg and Geometry from middle school are on his HS transcripts and figured into his GPA. Because he only took one semester of Alg II, that doesn't even show up for credit anywhere. In total, he skipped 4.5 years of math between 1st grade - Alg II. He took MV and AP Stat last semester, and is taking DiffEq and Discrete Math this semester. He's doing independent work in theoretical CS and is trying to get a paper published. Senior year, he's taking Complex Analysis and Linear Alg. The math has supported his interest in CS, which is an even stronger area for him than math.</p>
<p>We were lucky he got out of our local public elem early and into a series of public highly gifted programs where he could take math at his level with his age peers. I am thankful for the administrator at the school district level who recognized DS's screaming need and overrode the local principal in getting DS properly placed. I'm thankful for the teachers at the HG programs who knew how to manage asynchronous development without holding kids back. I am extraordinarily grateful to the critical mass of kids who spur each other to incredible heights while having fun at the same time. It has made all the difference. </p>
<p>DS has chosen not to take courses at the local university so that he could work on a couple of intense ECs (which have blossomed into some really interesting leadership roles), and in retrospect, that was a very wise decision on his part.</p>
<p>DS2 took Alg I as a 7th grader, and, since the school system has hopped on the bandwagon of early Algebra for all, got the watered-down version (even at a GT specialized program). He's a freshman in Alg II w/Analysis and it is a hard, hard slog. He'll do AP Calc AB junior year so he can take his IB SL in Math, and then take AP Stat senior year, which will be useful to him as a history/polisci/environmental science guy. </p>
<p>What has worked for us is learning the ropes of how the system operates, participating in online forums where folks can share their experiences, and being armed with info and knowledge so that the kids could make good choices and get the most out of the opportunities they've earned. The pushing I do invovles educating myself as to the options, pitfalls, advantages, etc. of various paths so that we know what's out there. It has not involved pushing them at all. They are both pretty self-motivated kids; I will freely admit we are very lucky in this regard.</p>
<p>LKF, I wonder what you mean by two years of calculus. Is this AB one year and BC the next or BC and then more advanced material? Your daughter certainly won't need to struggly to find more advanced math classes if she's not interested. As Marite said, colleges will see that she reached the capacity of her school in the 11th grade, and they won't hold that against her. She can then have time in her schedule for another class she's interested in, independent study (on CC you read about students doing a conventional class for independent study; at my school, students would do an in depth project of some sort related to something they were interested in), or a co-op program if her school has something like that.</p>
<p>corranged,
I did mean that the kids take "AP Calc AB" in junior year and "AP Calc BC" in senior year. It is my understanding that our hs required 4 years of seat-hours in math for graduation. Although with daughter's IEP, I guess that opens the door for some more creative solutions if the Calc BC is not her cup of tea. Another issue is that I wouldn't want her to get rusty from taking no math class at all. Thanks for the input! :)</p>
<p>In many programs, Calc BC includes all of the AB material in a one year class, which is why I was asking. If they are separate, each class really does move at quite a slow pace. I don't think that BC (without the AB material) would be much of a bother even if she doesn't love math. In any event, you do have time to decide.</p>
<p>Our high school requires that you have 4 years of math taken during high school. S took Algebra 1 and Geometry in middle school. They appeared on his h.s. transcript but were not added into his gpa. He was then required to take 4 more math courses in high school to graduate.</p>
<p>lkf725, if your school teaches AB Calculus as a full-year course and then teaches the remaining BC Calculus topics not included in AB Calculus as another full-year course, the pace of those courses will be quite leisurely. Your daughter shouldn't have any problem mastering the material.</p>
<p>Where kids sometimes run into trouble is when all of the calculus topics are taught in one year (in a BC Calculus course that does not have AB Calculus as a prerequisite). The pace of such courses is of necessity quite brisk, and kids can easily fall behind.</p>
<p>In school systems where the requirement is to complete four years of high school math (including high school math courses taken in middle school), as opposed to having to complete four years of high school math taught in high school, students have the opportunity to simply not take math as seniors if they already have four math credits. My daughter did this because there was another subject that she preferred to take instead of multivariable calculus, and it evidently did not harm her in terms of college admissions since she got into her first choice school ED.</p>
<p>I'm glad to hear you all say that the pace over two years is leisurely. My son had an easy time, but he was always great at math. I guess I won't worry about it then. Still, I would like to see AP Stats added, as it seems to be a pretty standard offering.</p>
<p>I myself took Algebra I in 7th grade. Personally, I was quite happy because I knew I wouldn't be bored to tears in regular math. Although, to be fair, I've been told I''m pretty good in math, so the fact that I found it easy doesn't really show much.</p>
<p>As for the worry about it showing on the hs transcript, it seems to be okay. However, if anyone is wary about putting a blemish on their record, taking high school classes early isn't for them.</p>
<p>If your kid is good in math and likes math then Algebra 1 in 7th grade is normal. Besides acceleration, you may want to expose him to MathCounts and AMC competitions too. Some kids like acceleration, some kids like problem solving skills in math competitions. Many like both.
Here are some links.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mathcounts.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.mathcounts.org/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.unl.edu/amc/%5B/url%5D">http://www.unl.edu/amc/</a></p>
<p>The question of running out of math options before finishing high school and how colleges would view that has been raised. My S ran out of math options at his high school and local college after his sophomore year. He was accepted to Princeton ED as a prospective math major, having taken no math classes at all his junior year. He was able to enroll in a college class at more distant college his senior year as he was then able to drive, but he had not yet received a grade when the admissions decision was made. I've found that the top schools expect students to follow a curriculum that makes sense for them.</p>
<p>Do the 7th grade algebra if possible. Its always better to get a head start than "waste" a year in terms of the high school track.</p>
<p>If your son enjoys math, let him progress as rapidly as his interests, abilities, and schedule allows. My son completed AP Calc BC in 11th and wanted to take Multivariable Calc as a senior but couldn't swing it with AP Bio (two periods) and the other APs. In his subject, he's taken two terms of statistics, but otherwise will take no more math as an undergraduate - misses it.</p>
<p>In addition to its intrinsic beauties, "more math" is necessary for those who are leaning towards engineering, the hard sciences, and social sciences.</p>
<p>This is actually a much tougher call than is at first obvious. For kids strong in math, the short answer is to take Alg in 7th grade. However, Alg I & II are MUCH different than good old elementary school math, so determining how strong in math the kid really is requires more math. :)</p>
<p>fwiw: our district continue tracks all kids who accelerate in math in middle school, and all the data clearly show that, on average, kids who accelerate recieve the lowest grades in Alg II. (Of course, this could also infer that the Alg I teachers in middle school are poor.) </p>
<p>My S is strong in math, but we did not accelerate him. However, he won the HS math award two years in a row, beating out all the kids that did accelerate, including the hardcore math/science kids. Since S was a prospective college humanities major, the math award allowed him to stand out in the app pool, IMO. Just a contrarian viewpoint.</p>
<p>I did this, and through faulty counseling I received absolutely no benefits. I did IB in high school. I did geometry my 8th grade year, alg 2 my 9th, and pre-calc my 10th. My counselor told me that I had to choose between the lower level math class and higher level math class for IB. I wanted to take the middle track, but she wouldn't let me because I had already started it in my 10th grade year. I was and am very centered in the humanities and I don't really enjoy math science all too much, so I chose the lower path. It has been hell. Essentially I have taken the same math class for 10th-12th grade. 10th grade was pre-calc at a normal pace, and the lower level IB math class was pre-calc stretched over 2 years. I still stand by my decision, because the higher level math class is extremely difficult (AB and BC calc 11th grade, multi-var 12th). I just don't want to get that involved in math.</p>
<p>It's a great path if you have proper counseling. I hope I'm the exception to kids who do this path and not the rule.</p>
<p>And for the record, a majority of the kids in my alg. 1 class in 7th grade (10 of the 12) dropped IB, and went on a completely traditional math path. I really don't know if real aptitude in math is sensible in the middle school years (unless the kid is doing something crazy like figuring multi-var calc out by himself... haha).</p>
<p>Bluebayou, I've heard of other schools where this has happened. And it does make me wonder if the middle school math teachers are no good. It certainly hasn't been our experience. As far as I know the other double accelerated kids did very well in high school. Our kid has consistently gotten A+s and also scored higher than anyone else on the AMC exams. It would have been criminal to keep him back. IMO.</p>
<p>Bluebayou raises a good point, though. Many kids excel at arithmetics but hit a roadblock or at least a bump in algebra. The latter requires different skills than arithmetics. This does not mean that a student should not take algebra 1 in 7th grade; just that this may not be a harbinger of taking AP-Calc so early as to run out of math classes in high school.</p>
<p>mathmom: I concur. But, the simple fact is that there is a paucity of good math and science teachers in education. I would assume that districts encourage their better teachers to teach at the HS level.</p>
<p>btw: our district is high achieving, one of the tops in the state so good teachers are attracted here.</p>