<p>My son's school did it a bit differently. S took Algebra 1 in 7th, then Honors Algebra 1 in 8th. The same teacher taught the kids both years, so they did not simply repeat things --- they went more in-depth. They actually did quite a bit of Algebra 2, which is good ... they'll have a year of geometry in between, so won't be bored. To me, the advantage is that my son has a very, very good grasp of algebra concepts (which I consider most important to being able to do higher level math). A few students who are especially gifted in math went right into honors geometry rather than honors algebra; this kind of flexibility is important to have.</p>
<p>Just a comment on putting grades from 7th grade algebra on a high school transcript: A decent adcom would not hold 7th grade accelerated grades against a student in the college admissions process. I disagree with the practice of putting these grades on the transcript to begin with. What's the point? Obviously the student had to pass the foundation classes to get to the higher level classes. A student who accelerates early shouldn't be using middle school math classes as part of their "4 years of math" requirement --- they need to take math during all 4 years of high school, anyway. I just don't understand the need to report the early grades at all. And if they are included in calculating val status, that's ridiculous! If they are, though, oh well ... it's not the end of the world to miss out on val status ... and it's definitely not something that should be driving a 7th grader's decisions on whether or not to move ahead in math. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, alternatively the school may just not be identifying the right middle schoolers. My younger son was a B math student in 6th and 7th grade - but he aced the school's algebra readiness test. He found algebra much easier than elementary school math. </p>
<p>Kids in our system really don't need to take four years of math in high school since high school level courses appear on the transcript. Since they don't accelerate any kids that they don't think are going to get at least a B, and encourage kids strongly to drop back to regular math if they aren't getting that B, the effect on high school GPAs is pretty negligible.</p>
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A student who accelerates early shouldn't be using middle school math classes as part of their "4 years of math" requirement --- they need to take math during all 4 years of high school, anyway.
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<p>Why do they necessarily need to take math during all four years of high school?</p>
<p>For some students, not taking math for one year during high school can be a viable choice that opens up a slot for taking an extra social studies, science, or fine arts course. Often, kids cannot take all the courses they want to because there isn't room in their schedules. If a kid who has already completed a year of calculus wants to not take math during senior year in order to be able to take both AP European History and AP Government, for example, rather than having to choose between them, where's the harm?</p>
<p>Marian,
DS2 may yet take this path if he gets through IB SL Math and screams ENOUGH - no AP Stat! He would <em>gladly</em> take on more history, comp gov't, etc. By that time he'll have five HS credits of math before the Stat, and he has NO intention of doing anything math-related in his future other than getting through whatever math core requirements he has to take in college.</p>
<p>I have a question for you and I can't think of a better place to ask you than this thread. </p>
<p>I've gathered from your previous posts that your S went to Cambridge Rindge and Latin and took MVCalc and LinAlg at Harvard extension. </p>
<p>I know that Rindge and Latin has block scheduling where you take 3 or 4 classes at a time and do them faster like at college. That seems to match better with Harvard extension. However, my school doesn't have that so senior year, I'm going to have to take at least 4 other heavy AP like classes plus MVCalc and I was thinking of doing EPGY MVCalc over the whole year instead of Harvard Extension just to match the pace with my other classes. But after reading your posts of how great the professor is (Is that Robert Winters?), I just don't know. </p>
<p>Do you think that the MVCalc/LinAlg combination would be too hard to do without having block scheduling or is it more like the same pace that CalcBC would be (1 1/2 times a regular class). I'm probably not as smart as your S, but you said you know a lot of kids who did this. I know this may be hard for you to answer since your son probably had CalcBC at the block scheduled pace too, but I'd appreciate any insight.</p>
<p>Another part of the Alg I to Alg II difficulties might be that in some places, middle school teachers do not have to be certified in a specialized area. Perhaps some of what's going on is that middle school teachers are not being adequaltely trained to teach rigorous, HS level Algebra, and the high school teachers (who do need subject certification) are picking up the pieces.</p>
<p>Not intended to flame teachers! DS2's experience was that he had enough Alg I to pass assessments and do well, but not enough for him to be solid and able to manipulate problesm as he got into Alg II. (Hence I am learning Alg I and II again.)</p>
<p>oldest dd took algebra 1 as an 8th grader (she attended k-8 private school)......then moved on to public h.s. where she took geometry, algebra II, etc. she feels like she missed learning some things in the algebra I class taken as an 8th grader. some things just weren't covered.</p>
<p>Both my kids took Alg 1 in 7th, and so far so good. They both had to fight tooth and nail to be accelerated (my daughter wrote a "persuasive letter" to the principal in 6th grade asking to be moved into 7th grade math), so maybe they ended up enjoying and appreciating it more as a result. Our elementary school district only accelerates a few kids each year, so the 8th graders go to the local public hs for geometry in 8th grade. If the kids end up going there for hs (mine both have), the geom grades appear on the transcript and are calculated into the GPA. My daughter, now a sr, got B's in geom but no worries - she is now trying to choose btn Stanford and MIT. </p>
<p>Here are the caveats:
1. While some kids thrive on being accelerated, others hit roadblocks later on in precalc or calc, and it doesn't seem to be predictable on past performance. One of the factors may be the workload (more homework earlier in hs career, as each class is geared for older students), but it also may be an issue of developmental maturity or fundamental interest in math.
2. Kids who are planning to continue with math in college need to take some math sr year - and I speak from sad personal experience. Our hs doesn't offer math beyond Calc BC, so my daughter and a couple of friends took MVar Calc at UC Berkeley last fall (it's a 45min drive from the hs). They all got B-'s, which was about the mean, not bad in a class of 500 engineering/math/physics majors, but the commute was a killer, not to mention taking 6 other classes and doing college apps, so no math this spring. She's thinking that she'll retake MVar Calc wherever she goes - if Stanford, she'll have to because their 2nd year sequence is integrated with DifEQ. My son, a sophmore, is planning either to do EPGY his sr year or go to the local jc for MVar, not sure which yet. Some kids take Calc AB jr year and take the second semester of BC sr year, but my daughter told my son that he'd be bored in Calc AB, so not to do that.
3. One disadvantage of being accelerated appears at SAT time - since geom was so long ago it's hard to remember it. Reviewing math before taking SAT's is an excellent idea (we'll see if I can talk my son into doing that).</p>
<p>Marinmom -- You're right about the need to review SAT math if one has been accelerated. DS made 1-2 bonehead mistakes each time on the PSAT, which motivated him to do a couple of practice sections <em>just to make sure.</em> And be sure these confident math kids BUBBLE IN the student produced responses! </p>
<p>My son's high school is very much against math acceleration and AP/honor classes because they are considered too stressful. Without acceleration you cannot take most AP math and science classes until senior year and you cannot take AP calculus at all. Yet more than half the students in the school are accelerated. One way to get around it is to take Geometry during summer, the school does not like it and warns against it since they have data that such accelerated students have difficulties in Alg 2 and preCalc, so now they banned that loophole completely. However most students did their acceleration before they enter high school so the school cannot do anything about it. In the school district, to accelerate in middle school you need recommendation of the 5th grade teacher. So to do your college planning, you need to start it in grade 4 or 5. For someone like my son who does not know about the process, he would have a great disadvantage in the weighted GPA. My son is not accelerated, even though his 8th grade SAT scores qualified for CTY, and missed SET by just 3 months or 30 points. So parents need to understand how their high school operates when the kids are still in elementary school.</p>
<p>^^^
Yes, Calif recommended Algebra 1 be taught in 8th grade.</p>
<p>However, in our school district, if you are not accelerated, you are taught in 8th grade chap 1 to chap 9 (the exact number I forgot) of the Alg 1 textbook, then in 9th grade you are taught chap 2 to chap 10 from the very same textbook.</p>
<p>BTW, this is a high school whose API is among the top 10 high schools in the state.</p>
<p>Post #108: "One disadvantage of being accelerated appears at SAT time - since geom was so long ago it's hard to remember it. Reviewing math before taking SAT's is an excellent idea".
I think SAT I does not ask questions that require a lot of memory about geometry. The geometry concept on the SAT I is drawn from pre-algebra or algebra 1, not from 8th grade geometry. It requires more reasoning than memory. All the basic geometry formulas are already given on the test. If the kids accelerate to calculus but "forget" basic geometry then it's a the problem with teachers that promote plugging in formulas instead helping the kids deriving formula. Learning math is learning problem solving. Strong math kids will not have problem with geometry on the SAT if they participate in local or national math contest like MathLink, Mathcounts, AMC,... (or at least don't learn math by memorization). They will not need to review a lot beyond the material in the College Board blue book. It's sad that the high school teachers fail the smart kids.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree. An immediate recall of Geom is critical for scoring well on the Reasoning test. While the formulas maybe given, one needs to think in two and three-D to visualize the problems to immediately formulate a solution and eliminate answers. Two years ago several kids were acing Calc BC as Juniors, but only scoring mid-600's on the SAT-M.</p>
<p>bluebayou: You can also have kids score 5 on Calc BC but only score 550 on SAT math. Calculus is not a ruler to measure mathematical ability of kids. Many kids fail badly in math beyond calculus in college.</p>
<p>I don't have statistics but I saw actual cases. Kids in my relative family had 5 in Cal BC in 11 th grade but could not get beyond 1200 old SAT.</p>
<p>ok, fair enough. Then, to what do you attibute their SAT scores? (They are taking college level math, but yet missing a lot of middle school-level math bubbles. hmmmmm) I submit that these kids just forgot the elementary rules of Alg I and Geom. A brief review and a 700+ is easy.</p>
<p>I'll agree that AMC should keep one fresh, but that's only once a year and may not coordinate with SAT testing. Get a review book, do a couple sections, refresh your memory. No big deal for a kid in Calc. I had a parent argue with me once that the SAT was a reason not to subject accelerate in math. Phooey! ;)</p>
<p>Mathson scored very well on the SAT, but he still made two completely bone headed mistakes on the SAT. The first, basically a 4th grade level problem, which involved counting tiles that would fit on a floor - he left out the last set of multiplying. (There were two or three sizes of tile.) Interestingly my husband made the same exact mistake when we discussed it over dinner. (Mom, the architect, did not.) The second mistake was misreading the question. He had the right answer for the question he thought they should have asked! I've also known chronic misbubblers. My sister in law is one of these. She loses a lot of time fixing bubbling errors. My son has always done far better on tests that were hard, than on tests that were easy. He gets careless and it's soooo boring to check over the easy stuff. You know you got it right, so why bother?</p>