I’ve been hearing rumors for a while now suggesting that Princeton does not consider freshman grades(besides the fact that class rank incorporates all years). If this is true my gpa jumps forma rough 3.6 to a 3.83-3.85ish so a big difference. If so this is huge for me because then I have solid test scores(2350,35act), ec’s, and rank(10/700 including freshman grades because I really beefed up my hpa). Can anyone confirm this statement? Thanks
Although there might have been a different policy in the past, Princeton does consider 9th grade grades.
@midatlmom Oh ok thank you for clearing that up!
This question has circulated around CC multiple times, without a definitive answer from what I remember. I believe this rumor had its origin based on information from a book titled, “A is for Admission” by Michele A Hernandez. While I have not personally read the book, the most recent publication I could find (on Amazon/Barnes and Noble) was 2009 which makes the information it contains about 6 years old. Other posters have indicated that Hernandez claimed Princeton does not use freshmen grades in calculating GPA. I can not find any information published by Princeton directly that verifies this claim. It may be true or it may be out of date or may even have been pure speculation. Regardless, there are other thoughts to consider.
Ultimately, most high school transcripts will contain 9th, 10th and 11th grade information (as well as any available reporting from 12th grade). These transcripts go to Princeton so they certainly have access to those grades. However the interest Princeton has in the “number” is most certainly kept in context of your school’s overall marking system (a 3.7 GPA at one school may be significantly better than a 4.0 at another), the difficulty of your course load, how you compare with other students from your school etc. They are looking at the overall quality of the student - numbers are only meaningful within a broader picture.
As of right now, there is nothing you can do about your marks in the first year of high school, so really why worry about them? Showing improvement is a positive, which it sounds like you have done. Focus now on getting the most out of your education, doing the best you can with what you have and don’t worry about what you can’t control. And when the time comes to apply, give it a shot if Princeton is a place you’d love to be, along with some safeties.
Cantiger - I got the answer about whether 9th grade counts directly from a high level Princeton admissions person this past year, so I’m fairly certain it’s correct. Princeton does consider grades from 9th grade.
However, you are absolutely correct. Grades are viewed in the context of the high school in question and the rigor of the courseload and a rising trend is definitely a good thing.
@midatlmom - Thanks! I didn’t see your post until after I had posted mine - my apologies if it sounded contradictory. I am glad for someone who checked it out first hand! I was tempted to call admissions myself and ask. Thanks to your investigation we have a definitive answer!
Michele A. Hernandez may have written about it, but take it straight from the horse’s mouth at around 12:55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjP5_tkuIE.
Vintage, yes, but what a gem, eh? At least while Fred was in charge, Princeton DID NOT include 9th grade in their GPA calculations. As late as 2012, a highly respected, very dialed-in high school guidance counselor told us that neither Stanford nor Princeton counted 9th grade. We believed her. It may or may not have aided our child’s case with a favorable admissions decision but, anecdotally, 9th grade was by far the weakest GPA on the transcript.
I don’t doubt @midatlmom at all, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable thinking there is a definitive answer here absent word from Dean Rapelye herself or some public statement. A lot has changed since her tenure but I’m not so sure this particular policy was overhauled.
Valdog, I asked a person who absolutely has knowledge about this issue (and one who is in a position to know more about it than even the most dialed-in guidance counselor) and was given a very specific answer. One of the reasons I asked was because I have always wondered why everyone seems to believe this is Princeton’s policy even though the website is silent. And one of the reasons I posted about it was because so many students seemed to believe this was still Princeton’s policy and I think it’s helpful for them to know that 9th grade counts. I doubt that Princeton plans to put up something on its website or make a public statement about this issue, since there is nothing on the website currently one way or the other and I can’t imagine the school would see the need to dispel what is at this point a rumor.
Many many things have changed at Princeton since Hargadon was Dean and certainly since 1990 when the video was posted and given the source of my information, I believe that this is one of those policies that is different. However, you or anyone else who is interested could call the Admissions Office to try to get a direct answer.
Brilliant, midatlmom. You win with the high-level contact “who absolutely has knowledge about this issue.”
You sound 100% certain so I hope it is so for the benefit of the OP and other applicants interested in this thread.
The video of the former Dean of Admissions at Princeton – vintage, as I noted – is rather fascinating and, for our purposes, speaks directly to the question of source for the 9th grade GPA issue, which you may recall from above, had been attributed to an author and alluded to as “rumor.” As we all can see, the “rumor” was, in fact, fact, at least at one time, and I thought I added some value in establishing this in living color. Fred said. Fred, in the flesh, lending a little insight into the secret practices behind the curtain during his long, colorful reign.
The issue of present-day policy is a separate one and obviously the more important. Of course some things have changed since Fred’s tenure - just as I stated. And as I respectfully wrote to you, I don’t doubt your account “at all,” though it would be nice to see something more tangible since colleges/admissionsfolk often say the darndest things that aren’t always 100% true. Just as you respect your source, I also can’t necessarily flatly discount the word of a respected and, yes, very, very dialed-in counselor who has been in the business of successfully placing hundreds of students at Princeton, has an excellent relationship with the school, knows the other side of the table, and who seemed to have insights that could benefit her primary constituents, i.e., the applicants, not so much the university. If that 2012 information is stale or erroneous, as I acknowledged it could be, I have no problem with that. But if you remain at all unsure or interested, you could call the Admissions Office or try to get a direct answer – perhaps from your source just to be super certain that the info posted is completely accurate.
Do I really think Princeton WOULD come out and issue a public statement one way or another? No, I do not. I was not being literal. But I actually CAN imagine a school ultimately finding some merit in addressing an issue riddled with rumor, especially where the rumor was initially grounded in truth and historical practice, especially when it has prevailed for so long and apparently still causes confusion. The admissions circus is difficult enough - why not tell applicants straight up in a simple one-line phrase in the admissions pages that one’s entire high school record matters – or that 9th grade matters not? The UC schools, for example, are quite transparent about it. Seems fair and harmless enough to me.
I’m sorry Valdog - I had no intention of getting your hackles up or anything. I wish I could name my source, but I don’t feel that it would be appropriate since I asked the question in a private conversation. I was pointing out that if applicants or their parents doubt my information (and I totally understand why they might although I personally am completely confident about it), there is no reason they can’t call the admissions office to ask the question themselves.
And I agree with you that I think it would be helpful if Princeton would make a statement about whether 9th grade counts, since people have been confused about it for years.
It’s all good, @midatlmom. I always appreciate your wisdom. I just feel for the kids so wish it were more clear. This theoretically could make some difference for certain students, say, one torn between H and P and deciding how to play the SCEA card, e.g., where the record is stellar but for that 9th grade year. Our (apparently mistaken) belief that 9th grade marks could be expunged (poof - happy magic!) was definitely a factor in our child’s decision to apply SCEA to P. Yikes…
Well obviously your child is exceptional 
and the ninth grade marks were better than you think or if they weren’t great, were not considered a proper measure of what your kid is obviously capable of.
@Valdog So since that video, have they changed there policies or just haven’t said anything? And yeah haha taking out 9th grade would almost be the difference in applying scea or rd(3.6-3.85)
Hi @princetonboii. See above ^^. Best of luck with the process!