I am currently deciding on whether or not to attend Duke University as an AB Scholar or Stanford University. The AB program is a full ride to Duke University, along with a summer of research at Oxford University, and a research stipend. There are also less quantifiable qualities, such as direct access to Duke faculty and primary access to new opportunities at the school. However, Stanford is Stanford: the opportunities and people and access at the school to me are like no other in the world. I have an eye for going to a top law school, and if I go to Stanford, I am worried that I may be an average student versus being apart of Duke’s top 12 incoming students. Any advice/help on this topic would be very appreciated.
It sounds like the scales are tilted towards Duke.
What’re the costs for Stanford?
At Stanford, I will have to pay full. However, I was told by my parents to look beyond the costs of both.
Possible law school plans are not a good basis for choosing a college. Go back to the basics. Ignore prestige or the sticker on your parents car. Think about the time you spent on each campus. Think about what -as a student, taking classes, being involved with ECs, living in dorms, etc.- your life will be like for the next four years. Pick the one that is most likely to be happy for you, day to day, during finals, when life goes south, etc. B/c it will from time to time, at both schools: you will get a crummy prof (yes, they exist at both schools), a friend will let you down, you will screw something up, whatever. Where do want to be when that happens?
Both will prepare you equally well for law school.
However, I think you are grossly overestimating your ability to do much better academically at Duke than Stanford. Their admission profiles are very similar… I don’t think it is remotely true that if you were an average student at Stanford, you would be near the top of the class at Duke.
You’ll find that the students are of similar caliber at both schools – extremely talented and high achieving! If cost is not an issue to your family, then you should probably choose where you feel the best “fit”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7P3o5qnPFY
This girl was literally in your same position (she chose neither) but her thought process was really interesting to hear.
Stanford grad here. Stanford’s a great place, but personally in your shoes I’d take the AB Duke:
- Stanford and Duke are fairly similar and roughly equivalent schools, IMO. Both have a strong sports tradition and a lot of school spirit. Stanford has a higher "rating" and is more tied in to entrepreneurship and the Silicon Valley tech world, but I think you'd get a similar quality education at both institutions.
- Any difference between Stanford and Duke is not worth roughly $250K (the 4 year cost of full pay at Stanford vs. a full ride at Duke). Even if your parents can afford it, it's a huge amount to spend. Law school will be expensive, and you could ask them to put that money aside for law school.
- The AB Duke is more than a free ride, it is essentially an open ticket to create your own future at Duke, with all the resources of the institution behind you. There will be early exposure to professors and advisors, and the opportunity to find mentors and research opportunities that would take much more effort at Stanford. Having the AB Duke label will be at least as prestigious as coming from Stanford when applying to law schools.
A couple of other thoughts:
- "I am worried that I may be an average student versus being apart of Duke's top 12 incoming students." If you are distinctive enough to merit an AB Duke then I have no doubt that you can "stand out" at Stanford. Both are great opportunities. But I think the AB Duke will give you a better springboard, and the cost difference is huge.
- No school or program is for everyone, no matter how good. There are both Stanford students and AB Dukes who haven't done well or who have transferred. A free ride isn't worth it if the school isn't a good fit. But in your case, I get the sense that you would thrive at either school.
Feel free to PM me your details if you want more specific advice.
Good luck!
@ninepoints as mentioned above I would urge you not to I estimate your potential standing at Duke. Sure you are more likely to be near ranked higher in Duke than Stanford relative to your peers, but Duke is a pretty competitive school with many top students so you never know. Also the AB is given only to tippy top students who I m sure would have no issue Standing or at Stanford.
Like you I feel Stanford is such a unique place, with opportunities like no other. I would have such a hard time choosing between the two. If cost really isn’t an issue at all, personally I would go with Stanford. This is because I personally think it is the best school out there, and also because I believe it is better to be a smaller fish in a bigger pond Than a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Also Stanford has grade inflation which will help for law school and mitigate the fact that they are so many extremely top students there. What are you planning to study?
All that said choosing AB over Stanford is also perfectly reasonable to me.
The 25-75% SAT ranges for Duke and Stanford are similar, with Duke slightly higher by 10pts. The caliber of students are going to be very similar. Don’t underestimate the non-financial benefits of the AB. Easy access to faculty mentoring is a huge advantage, something that is going to be very hard to find at Stanford, where you will be one of 7000 students. Also if you are looking at law, both Duke and Stanford have about the same number of graduates at Yale law school (16 vs 13). So there is no disadvantage in going to Duke. Stanford is definitely not worth the 260k.
If there were no price difference, the the AB program would be the tipping point. It sounds like you would really enjoy being part of a special elite group that is set apart from the general population. If not for the AB program, Stanford would be your choice, but this program makes Duke more appealing.
@ninepoints let us know what you choose!
@nw2this @collegemom3717 @magtf1 @oPhilippos @renaissancedad @Penn95 @CA94309 Thank you all so much for your insightful opinions and advice! Currently, I am leaning towards Stanford for the following reasons:
- The University provides opportunities that I think are unmatched at Duke. One reason I am thinking this is the fact that so many individuals change their majors during college. Say I enter Duke as a poli sci major with plans for law school, but instead pick up an interest in another social science or even a hard science. Stanford, in my opinion, is phenomenal in all of its departments. At Duke, some departments are strong and others are weaker than other schools. If my interests were to change, Stanford seems to provide so many more opportunities in terms of clubs, internships, faculty, and more in a variety of areas that such a switch could be not only easy, but more successful than at Duke.
- Stanford's entrepreneurial spirit. I enjoy creating groups, clubs, etc. I think at Stanford, there is more of a culture geared towards that than Duke.
- Thinking beyond college, I have to be proud with the choice I make for college. I can go to Duke and have that support structure, or I can go to Stanford and be the proverbial "small fish in a big pond", finding and building my own path. While Stanford will be the harder route, the opinions from this thread and even from my family, teachers, and friends is that I will be able to shine in someway or another at Stanford. It will just require more work and my own proactiveness.
- I truly believe that a degree from Stanford will help me open more doors than a degree from Duke. I have an eye for hopefully doing work with political/NGO groups in the Middle East and Asia. A degree from Stanford, in my opinion, is better known internationally than at Duke.
I did enjoy both campuses. It was a little hard to initially adjust to Stanford’s culture when I visited: Duke had been so much smaller and I felt people were better connected than on Stanford’s enormous campus. However, after Admit Weekend, I could see myself being comfortable and happy at both schools. Something you should know about me is that I am all about collaboration and community. While that felt stronger at Duke since it seemed smaller, I believe those qualities are present at Stanford too.
@harvardandberkeley You made a very good point: both schools will be academically competitive and both will have highly talented students. One of the reasons I thought Stanford would be far more competitive than Duke is that it has always been construed, almost mythologized, as a site of genius by so many people that I have talked to as well as by the media. However, this is simply not true.
Please tell me if any of my current thoughts are accurate or misinformed! I am by no means committed, and will be using tonight to sleep on my decision and get some last minute advice from teachers and friends before I commit tomorrow. But more than anything, I will be going with my gut with this.
I totally agree. This to me is a tipping factor in favor of Stanford.
(FWIW, I have a graduate degree from Duke and an undergrad degree from a HYP).
@ninepoints I personally agree with your reasoning. And while the scholarship at Duke offers great opportunities I would eventually also be leaning towards Stanford for many the reasons you mentioned. (Stronger across the board in all disciplines, stronger name/connections, and the school spirit and campus vibe). Personally I also think it is important to be a smaller fish in a bigger pond, cause the opportunities to learn from your peers and stretch yourself are better. Plus if you are competitive enough to be given the AB scholarship chances are you will thrive at Stanford.
Most importantly, to me it looks like you will always regret not attending Stanford if you choose Duke. This is probably the most important point. If you are gonna end up regretting it the it is not worth it. I think you are leaning towards the right choice.
(1) I don’t think Stanford offers any opportunities “unmatched” at Duke. Duke is incredibly strong across the board in nearly every field. Sure, some of Stanford’s PhD programs are ranked somewhat higher… but at this level, an undergrad would not notice the difference at all.
(3) Again, I think you are quite incorrect in your assessment that somehow Stanford will be more challenging/rigorous or will be a “harder path.” It just isn’t true. You could virtually swap the student bodies and not be able to tell that much of a difference.
I missed earlier that you are deciding between the full scholarship at Duke vs. full-pay at Stanford… no way is Stanford worth quarter million dollars more than Duke (that is, unless your family is uber wealthy… in which case, none of this really matters).
@harvardandberkeley while I agree that the difference between the student bodies in all the top 10 or so schools is no much difference, i feel they are not indistinguishable especially for Harvard, Stanford, MIT compared to the rest. These schools get the vast majority of the super genius prodigy, truly exceptional kids.
Also @ninepoints I agree with above for me Stanford is worth it only if the extra cost will make no practical difference in any way to your family budget.
I’m not even sure that that’s true, but even if it were, it doesn’t matter. A handful more of the truly exceptional kids isn’t going to significant change your experience so much that it’s worth making a college choice over it, particularly when that choice has a $250K price tag.
If it were my kid, I’d encourage him/her to take the AB Duke and go to Stanford for grad school (if it has the right kind of program). And, then, with the money we’ve saved for college, I would help support my kid in their graduate endeavors or house down-payment.
Duke is the smart choice plain and simple but prestige seems to be more important for some reason. Sad to see from such “smart” kids but happens al the time.