A check-writing parent needs help...

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Miami - Florida
1

<p>I start this thread by first apologizing to those parents and students (both prospective and enrolled) who currently are or are struggling with the financial issues that go with attending the University of Miami. I completely respect those who must deal with these issues, and I sincerely hope that this post does not come off as insensitive or boastful. I fully recognize that my son is lucky to have the resources to choose the school that he will attend...but that does not mean that he can be completely oblivious to these issues (after all, there IS grad school to consider).</p>

<p>After spending much of his early HS days trying to get his act together, my son did finally did enough (in both his classes and on the SAT) to start shooting for some pretty good schools for his undergraduate degree. His GPA was not good enough to qualify for any merit aid, but he was at least at the level to gain admission to some good schools. At the end of the process, at the top of the list is the U - it was the best school that he gained clear admittance to. He was waitlisted at several schools (the best one probably being Richmond), and he also got into a few other schools (Syracuse, Delaware, Alabama) that are down in the pecking order. His primary interest is either pre-law or business/economics...which is where - for me - the dilemma exists. If he was entering into the sciences, I would be COMPLETELY comfortable with him attending the U - they have a strong reputation as a research institution, and my impression from everything that I have read (including from posters here at CC) is that he would be able to get ANYWHERE he wanted to go after graduation with good test scores and a solid GPA from the U.</p>

<p>However, my sense is that Miami's reputation in areas like pre-law and business is not as strong as some of the other schools that he applied to....which may be part of the reason why he was accepted at the U, but waitlisted at Richmond (where the Robins business school is a top-15 undergrad business program) and straight denied at Tulane (although it may not have mattered what area of interest he indicated). While I do know that Miami recently hired someone from the University of Michigan to head up their business school, I do not believe that Miami's business school has the same reputation out there (especially with employers, as the average starting salaries of graduates would certainly seem to indicate).</p>

<p>While I am certainly happy that my son got into the U, and am ready to support him in his endeavors, I still would like to have him accept the Richmond waitlist slot, not only because options are always good in my opinion, but because I do believe that - at least at this point - a Richmond undergraduate degree will be more valuable to him should he go to get his MBA or go to law school...particularly in the northeast and mid-Atlantic (we live in the metro Philadelphia area). I know that the odds are likely against him getting off of the waitlist at Richmond anyway (even though I would think that the majority of the kids taken off the list are full-pay applicants), but I am having a tough time letting go of that hope and just celebrating his next chapter of life at the U.</p>

<p>He is going down to visit the campus tomorrow with his mom...will actually be there Thursday night to experience the campus during the Sweet 16 game...and I know that he is PUMPED for all of the non-academic things that Miami has to offer. He does know that it is a good school...he says he knows that he will have to work harder (for all four years) if he wants to get where he wants to go. However, as an analyst by trade, I am just trying to get comfortable with spending the amount of money that I will be spending, while recognizing that in his area of interest (business/prelaw), the value of the undergraduate degree may not match the check that I am going to write...</p>

<p>Again - my apologies if this post rubs some people the wrong way. I don't mean it to. I just hope that some forum members can give me a greater sense of comfort that - as long as he does the work, he will still have high-quality MBA or law school opportunities.</p>

<p>Thanks for reading this rambling post...and thanks in advance for your help!</p>

2

<p>bebopdeluxe,
No offense taken. As a parent of a student that has many choices I have also had some reservations about UM over the last months. I can objectively say that now after a second visit (for the Singer merit scholarship w/e) this is a school on the rise, one that has a big ambition to continue to reinvent, re-purpose and recast itself as a top tier University. One thing that jumped out at me was that all of the faculty and administration we met (10-12) were all aligned with short, mid and long range ambitions of the University. For my son it is easy as he would be joining the Rosenstiel Marine School which is one of the 2 best in the nation (and a top 5 in the world).<br>
UM is a top 40 University. If he does well he will have great opportunities. UM has a very progressive and active internship program and I think interning is a key to success in business (not just Alma mater).
UM has great diversity and understanding / interacting with people from different cultures is a key part of succeeding in the global business of this century.</p>

<p>As for strategy regarding the waitlist it seems to me you can pay the non-refundable UM enrollment fee ($300) and show lots of interest in Richmond to see if the waitlist goes your son’s way. If it doesn’t I think he’ll have a great education, meet people from around the world and be well prepared for his next challenges.</p>

3

<p>Biocellar:</p>

<p>Thanks for the response! If I were in your shoes, the decision would be a lot easier - obviously the marine bio program is one of the best in the world, so your son is making ZERO compromises as far as his field of study. I also do believe that the U is doing all of the right things as far as growing its mission and standing as a top-flight university. Unfortunately, stereotypes do exist…perhaps not among grad schools (who recognize that Miami has come a long way over the years), but certainly among corporations who are making hiring decisions…again, looking at everything from starting salaries for business majors to the perception of corporations and employers (where the U is ranked 130th in Bloomberg’s business undergrad survey among prospective employers), there is still a nagging perception of “Suntan U” that manages to hang on out there.</p>

<p>I am sure that President Shalala understand this - which is why Dean Anderson was hired away from Michigan to lead the Business School’s efforts. As a person who is a portfolio manager at an investment firm, however, I recognize that old perceptions die hard…and it will take time for the investments that the school is making to improve the perception and ranking of the business school. I am somewhat less concerned about things if my son goes on to grad school - I think that as long as he gets good grades and has good test/board scores, he will probably have lots of opportunities. I was just hoping that others who are not as fortunate to be on a track like marine biology could give me some insight as to their sense of how a UM undergraduate degree translates in fields like business or law.</p>

4

<p>bebopdeluxe, My S is currently a sophomore at the U, on the pre-med track. It is a great place to get an undergrad education and the city has alot to offer. I don’t know anything about Richmond, and I can’t speak too much about the b-school or pre-law at the U. However, don’t get too hung up on the rankings. If your S gets good grades, gets involved in school activities, can do an internship, then it really does not matter much where his undergrad degree is from. It is what you make of your 4 years as an undergrad. My D, currently in high school, has visited schools is midwest and east coast and she wants to be a business major. I suggest your son try to meet with someone in B-school at Miami ( after the regular admissions session/tour) to find out about the undergrad program. That is what we did with my D at various schools. We found some schools are recruited by companies nationally and some are recruited primarily locally. Some help more than others with internships, etc. So it is a matter of where your son is more comfortable, not just which school has a higer ranking. good luck</p>

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<p>I know exactly where Bebopdeluxe is coming from. S loves Miami - and it has been his first choice for over a year. He has also been accepted to UVA, an in-state school. McIntire School of Commerce (ranked #2) is very well-known and comes with a lot of opportunities. It’s hard to justify paying over three times as much tuition for a lesser known business program. That’s not to say that Miami isn’t an amazing opportunity also. We love everything about Miami, but it’s hard for us to justify the price for a business degree.</p>

6

<p>ljrfrm:</p>

<p>The bottom-line is, given where my S was coming from academically, getting into the U was a great accomplishment…and I am prepared to financially support him going to the best school he possibly can. However, if I am going to spend the kind of $$$ that I am going to spend (on either Miami or Richmond), I would rather see him go to the school that will provide him the best opportunities in his areas of interest. We visited U of R…I though it was great, but my S - while thinking it was nice - was not as enamored of the school as I was. Nonetheless, he applied to Richmond ED…was deferred into the RD pool…and subsequently waitlisted (which has not done a lot for his feeling that they really WANT him)…as opposed to the U - which, in his mind, welcomed him with open arms…</p>

<p>THIS is what I am struggling with.</p>

<p>HE wants to go to Miami…and I am having a difficult time convincing him that 1) Richmond is likely a better school for his field of study, and 2) Richmond is a pretty fun place to go to school as well! For you, there is a clear and MASSIVE difference in the $$$ between UVA and Miami…which helps with selling the narrative that UVA is a better place to go as far as a business undergrad degree is concerned. I don’t have that arrow in my quiver…and I feel like if I force him to keep EVERY Richmond option open (after him already dealing with being both deferred AND waitlisted from there), he is going to be resentful of my heavy hand in all of this (check-writing or no check-writing).</p>

<p>THAT is why I am trying to get comfortable with what the outcome will be like if he pursues business or law at the U. While I want him to enjoy his college experience (which I am sure he will), I also want to feel like he is also giving himself the absolute BEST chance to take the next step when his 4 years are up - either to grad school or the workforce.</p>

7

<p>bebop: I understand where you are coming from too. My DS has Miami at the top of his list for biomedical engineering. We are in NY and no one here recognizes Miami for engineering at all. “Why does he want to go to Suntan U?” What really made me feel comfortable was meeting with the Chair of the BME Dept during our last visit there (after DS was accepted). I am in PR so I know they are trying to sell to us. But at the same time, we had a list of questions ready and walked out really thrilled with all that UM will be able to offer DS, as early as his freshman year. We also stopped at the career center that day. So my advice is for your wife and DS is to call today and arrange to meet with a department chair or professor. Bring a list of questions – about internship opportunities, career placement, typical employers of UM grads, etc. My DS also shadowed a student while he was there - your DS should try to do that too (arranged through his department).</p>

<p>DS was also accepted to the Maryland for engineering and got into the College Park Scholars program, and was offered some merit aid. Maryland engineering is very highly ranked. Still, the school is too big for him and he is most comfortable at UM, where he also got a scholarship (but Maryland would still be significantly less). On the other hand, DS is still waiting to hear from Lehigh and Johns Hopkins. IF (a big IF) he gets in to either, esp. JHU, and re-thinks Miami’s top spot on his list, we will have to consider finances because he is not likely to get scholarship money at either of those two.</p>

<p>I understand that you want to send your DS to the place where he will have the best opportunities, but you also mention that DS is not enamored with Richmond. I don’t understand why he applied ED to Richmond if he wasn’t enamored with it. The college experience and what you get out of it is primarily a factor of what the student puts into it. I have a friend in finance who went to a college that is NEVER mentioned on CC (I would have to see if it even has a forum and if anyone posts there), and he has had a very successful career on Wall St.</p>

<p>Just an anecdote - my neighbor’s daughter is a junior at Miami in the business school - the parents speak very highly of it - the opportunities she’s had, internships, etc.</p>

<p>If the issue is not the money, then is it just that you will be disappointed if he doesn’t choose Richmond (if he even gets off the WL)? It was hard for me when DS didn’t even consider my alma mater (great for engineering, perfect size for him), but I realized that I had my experience and now he gets his.</p>

8

<p>LINYMOM:</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback!</p>

<p>To be clear, my S did like Richmond…and he also recognized that it is a quality school that had everything that he was looking for (bigger than your average 2000-ish LAC enrollment, great facilities, the PPEL interdisciplinary program that would have covered all of his areas of interest, etc…). In addition, a colleague of mine is the VP of the alumni association…he had met my S and was willing to write a letter on his behalf (hey - you use every legal option available…). To be candid, he/we thought the Richmond/Miami/Tulane trinity was a reach for him, given his relatively low GPA (even though his SAT scores were solid)…he had spent too much time early in HS not taking his work seriously, and even though he made a strong comeback in 11th/12th grade, we both thought the hole was too deep to climb out of.</p>

<p>He applied EA to Miami, and was OVER THE MOON when he was accepted! He had been to the campus a couple of summers ago visiting a friend who was at a summer program there, and the idea of GOING TO COLLEGE IN MIAMI was pretty sweet…</p>

<p>(oh, yeah…it’s a pretty good school too)</p>

<p>As with other posters in this thread, your S is going into a program at Miami that is one of its strongest - if I felt the same way about their business program, I probably would not have the concerns/issues that I have. He will be sitting in on an economics class on Thursday, and hopefully will have the chance to talk to some other people in the department while he is there. I do think that is important, but I would still like to get some feedback from either students or parents of students from some of Miami’s less-established, non-science/research departments to share their feedback and viewpoints.</p>

9

<p>Bebopdeluxe- I too had my reservations about the Business School. Earlier this month, I visited the school with my son. We went on a tour of the Business School and met with one of the Senior Advisors. She was very informative and helpful. She went over the curriculum and the schools philosophy. I was quite impressed. She mentioned that about 64% found jobs and another 20 to 25% went onto Law or Graduate School. You should arrange to meet with her. My son got into Tulane with a better financial package and probably will attend Miami. Drive around downtown Miami and you will see all of the major financial institutions and many fortune 500 companies.</p>

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<p>Copying this from the Class of 2017 thread… This looks like a better thread for the issue (there are some comments over there on this as well)…</p>

<p>Selecting an undergrad business school. Down to:

  1. Villanova, Bloomberg rank 15, ave salary $55,000, 94% job placement, $57,000 cost
  2. Penn State, rank 26, ave salary $56,000, 100% placement, $32,000 cost
  3. Georgia, rank 44, ave salary $46,000, 80% placement, $39,000 cost
  4. Miami, rank 70, ave salary $47,000, 67% placement, $50,000 cost</p>

<p>Like a lot about U of Miami. Struggling with cost / value. Any helpful comments in comparing these four?</p>

<p>(Paying full cost, no scholarships).</p>

11

<p>My DS is a senior and graduating in May with a BSBA from the School of Business at Miami. He is continuing on to grad school for a Masters in the fall. He has had a challenging and good experience in the B school and at Miami in general! He embraced many opportunities, got involved on campus, had an internship last summer and another this summer before he starts grad school. He got into all grad schools that he applied to.
The advisor in the B school is terrific and has been there for many many years. The support these students have with their profs and at Miami in general has amazed us as parents. No regrets from him or us. He has had a wonderful experience at Miami and embraced his experience on campus getting involved in many activities, clubs, fraternities, etc. I truly believe that getting the internships, job offers, into grad schools all begins with getting good grades, scoring well on GMAT and creating a resume that lets the reader know who you are when you are not in class. If you don’t create a unique resume that sets you apart,with all the opportunites at UM, then you will miss out on the opportunities that it helps to create. With over 250 clubs/organizations at UM, you can create a 4 year experience that shows the true student and their potential. Also, if your student works a bit on campus, they will have an appreciation for balancing their time, earning money and just having a bit of “skin in the game” so to speak.</p>

<p>These decisions are difficult, but a good student can thrive wherever they go, just make the most of where you settle and embrace it! The 4 years fly by!</p>

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<p>If he’s pre-law he shouldn’t worry about his undergraduate education too much… he should try to go somewhere cheap and, most importantly, where he can get a good GPA. I’ve been accepted to 6 top ten law schools (including - and I only mention it because you’re from Philly - UPenn) as an undergraduate at UM (without a stellar GPA, I’ll add), and I know many of my peers have been admitted to similarly (and even more) impressive schools. In terms of law school admissions, a 3.9GPA from UMiami will be looked at much better than a 3.85 from Richmond or nearly any other school. (By that same token, a 3.9 from Delaware or Alabama will be looked at much better than a 3.85 from Miami).</p>

<p>I can’t speak so much to the business side of things, though.</p>

<p>Overall, I’d encourage your son to choose a school where he’ll be happy. If he’s happy, he’s more likely to do well and have great opportunities.</p>

13

<p>My D’13 was accepted at UMiami, Alabama and several other universities, she too is very fortunate that finances are not an issue. D is a Marine Bio major and intends to attend law school as well. The obvious choice would be UM, their Marine Bio program is outstanding! However she felt at home at Alabama, therefore that is where she will attend. I say let your son guide his future, UM has a fine business school, I believe that attending a school that is a good fit, where your child is comfortable is more important than just picking a university based on rankings.</p>

14

<p>Thanks to everyone for their input! At the end of the day it is his grades, board scores and intangibles that will determine his opportunities after graduation…so the key will be finding the place where my son can grow and thrive.</p>

<p>Hopefully he will have a great visit starting tomorrow…</p>

15

<p>My son is a freshman now, and was primarily focused on Communications, but also had an interest in Business. Because he had a lot of AP credits, he is actually able to major in both, which requires he get 2 degrees. Most of the people I have met have a double major, something I did not see at many of the schools we looked at. Because of the core requirements, it can be tough to get dual degrees. That’s where the AP credits helped as he was able to place out of many classes. I have been so impressed with his academic advisors in both schools, who have spent hours with him mapping out how he can accomplish the dual degree in 4 years, and still go abroad for a semester. So far, he is also enjoying the classes, and finding them challenging. He has plenty of time to get involved, and has so far at the radio and TV stations.</p>

<p>When my son first mentioned Miami, I have to say I did not think much of it. Then he got in and was offered a nice scholarship, so we visited and did our research. He was accepted to many schools with higher rankings, but as we visited the others, Miami rose to the top. It was where he felt at home, and the weather didn’t hurt! Please speak with the Deans. They were very accessible, and will make you feel comfortable with the decision. The more time I have spent on campus, and at parent events, the more I knew this was a great choice for my son!</p>

16

<p>Beb-How was your visit?</p>

17

<p>My best friend husband did Law School at the U. He was then hired by White & Case to work in Brazil to help in the privatization of public companies. He became a partner in six years. Now he has several attorneys under his command making much more money than his New York colleagues. I guess success depends on the person.</p>

18

<p>BTW my son is going to the U this year. He is doing Engineering. My niece is a junior in the school of business, my other niece just got into pre- med and my husband did his residency at the Miller School of Medicine.</p>

19

<p>Bebop, I have to say that reading your post about your son’s acceptance to Miami, all I could think of was the Groucho Marx line: “I would never be a member of an organization that would have me as a member.”</p>

<p>You need to assess the odds of your son clearing the wait-list at Richmond. Some schools WL literarily thousands and then take 20. What’s the rate of WLs clearing for the last three years? Is it even realistic to hope that he’ll clear?</p>

<p>For us what was important was that both sons went to the school that they felt they would perform best at; not the “easiest” but the place that would provide them with the environment that gave them the best shot to succeed. For son1, that was Miami. To me that trumps everything else, including perceived differences in prestige. Son2 attends a ‘less prestigious’ business school, at least according to rankings, than he could have attended. He felt most comfortable at his choice school. He’s finagled jobs and internships since half way through first semester freshman year. I can’t imagine him being anyplace else.</p>

<p>Finally, the only compelling argument I can think of for holding out hope for Richmond is a job after school, though not if he’ll get a job, but where. After the top 3-5 schools, business schools are highly regional when it comes to hiring. Going to Richmond if he clears the WL increases his odds of getting a job in the DC northern Virginia area. At Miami he’ll have a better chance getting a job in Florida.</p>

20

<p>I want to thank everyone for their input. To your point, vinceh, there is no certainty that my son will get off the waitlist at UR, and the fact - both in my mind and my son’s - that they had TWO chances to say yes (ED and RD) and they have not made the commitment to him is not leaving him with a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.</p>

<p>My son came back from his trip yesterday and is ready to enroll…my ex-wife was very impressed with both the facilities and the people she met…my son sat in on a class (a 200-level classics class taught by a Berkeley PhD) and really liked the feel of it…the prof actually took the time after class to talk to my son, which was very nice as well. I do feel comfortable that - as long as he gets the grades and GMAT/LSAT scores, he will have lots of good options for grad school…but the bottom line is it needs to be a place where HE is comfortable…where he will have the best opportunity to succeed.</p>

<p>And at this point, that place is the University of Miami.</p>