<p>My son accepted one of those merit awards this poster mentioned (Vanderbilt). I couldn’t really say how brilliant or dull his fellow fish were. What I can say is he had an outstanding academic experience, participated in research from the start of his freshman year and had several peer-reviewed publications by the time he graduated, including first author on a paper he presented at a national conference, and co-author of a textbook chapter (which schools will use it I couldn’t say.) He finished dual majors in computer science and math by the end of his junior year, so he spent his last year completing a master’s (with thesis) in computer science. He had an extremely high-paying job lined up before the start of his “senior” year. (Which he is enjoying at the current time.)</p>
<p>I’m not too proud to admit to a good deal of pleasure in the fact that he graduated with his college savings intact, zero debt on his part, zero debt on our part, and our retirement savings unscathed. </p>
<p>I don’t argue that his decision would have been the right one for everyone. And since I’m only human I can’t say how things would have worked out if he had accepted a place in a program that was “higher ranked” in his fields. He did his homework before making his decision, visiting campus twice to speak with professors and department reps to determine how likely it was that he would be allowed to do research early on, how much advanced standing he would be awarded for some fields, if he could enroll in graduate courses, how easy it would be to dual major in two different colleges, and so on. He looked around, talked, researched, thought about his long-term future plans and finances and weighed his options.</p>
<p>He is a pretty practical guy. And very frugal. For him, it was the right decision. However, he still did not make the decision until the last day or two of April. And I will admit to doubts until after the school year began–I was not completely convinced the social fit would work. It worked just fine. I’m glad I stayed out of it.</p>
<p>Congrats to your S, Midmo! Now he’s positioned to use his college funds to purchase some low-priced real estate or start his own firm down the road or whatever his heart desires! Great! Sounds like he’s a great kid and will have an amazing future!</p>
<p>Oh my. Sometimes it’s hard to post anything about your kids without offending sensibilities. Midmo, Vanderbilt is wonderful school and that scholarship was fantastic. It was a huge honor to have it offered. And it would have been a great pathway to pursue. No question. I posted about our decision because we decided along with our son to go ahead an choose an expensive pathway because it honestly seemed to offer unique resources that were not available – or not as plentiful – as other schools he considered. Just like all families go through the decision process. Some choose the really good and less expensive option. Some pay more for just as valid of reasons.</p>
<p>FWIW, no debt (either on the part of our son or us) was incurred for his undergrad education. As I posted, he finished early and saved money and is quite gainfully employed. We feel good about the decision.</p>
<p>No doubt that is true, but it does not apply in this case. I was not offended, and that was not the motivation for my post. You explained why your son’s decision was the right one for him, and I explained why my son’s was the right one for him. The point I was trying to make is that there is no one path that is the right one for every student.</p>
<p>I don’t give a lot of advice, especially to strangers, but I think it is safe to suggest that everyone study her/his options closely, try to take the long view, visit, ask questions, do the homework, and then make decisions that fit their own situation.</p>
<p>HImom, thank you. We think he is a great kid, and we hope his future is amazing, but we will settle for happy and healthy.</p>
<p>I think it is really hard to have this conversation because parents often don’t have any fair comparison point (the path their child did take compared to the one they did not take). </p>
<p>And understandably every parent can rightly find evidence to justify the path their child did take. </p>
<p>Fortunately, most parents and students are pretty happy with the trade offs they think they made and the outcomes they received.</p>
<p>For me, the value of attending an elite school goes beyond potential earnings in a job. It’s really more about developing a self shaped by the incredible talent, drive, and diversity of the individuals I met. I don’t feel it’s something one will necessarily appreciate without experiencing it for him/herself. Attending an elite college for me was a surreal intellectual and social experience that will stay with me for life, and I just can’t place a value on that. If you have the opportunity to go and the financial aid you get makes it doable, I would just go.</p>
<p>It is always nice to have more good options and the leisure to make the choices that appear to fit well and not have dire consequences if there need to be adjustments to such choices.</p>
<p>No one can ever know what would have happened with the “road not taken,” and constantly wondering would interfere with moving forward.</p>
<p>I think most of us would be happy if our kids are happy and healthy. I know that pleases me.</p>
<p>Yes, and happiness and health can be compromised by pressure, debt, low self-worth, as well as boredom, laziness, lack of stimulation, distraction.
Each person is different.</p>
<p>I think it is very hard to compare the experiences at the various colleges these days. Not only is the experience very subjective, once there, but the student bodies are evolving quite rapidly. I am not so sure about how much the teaching and research and curriculum are changing. Certainly the facilities on average have gone through a huge upgrade in the last 10-15 years. The post grad experience can be reviewed but is also evolving, and the economic environment has had a very volatile impact on that.</p>
<p>What I do appreciate about the ranking and the CDS is that one can compare the aspects of colleges that are important to you.</p>
<p>There are SO MANY intangibles. D is LOVING an exhibit that has been put up just now for Cecil B. DeMille because his estate donated a bundle to have some endowed chair or something at USC Cinema school. She’s having a wonderful time admiring the wonderful props that she can see every day, all day there. She can’t believe the wonderful opportunities they have–access to amazing folks and everything. </p>
<p>We are grateful that she has the opportunities. I’m confident that she could have had other amazing opportunities if another road were taken but am glad she is enjoying the journey on the one she is on. </p>
<p>Similarly with S, he was happy with the U he attended. He may have been as happy or happier somewhere else, but enjoyed his university journey as well and is now finding his career to be quite interesting as well.</p>
<p>The college experience has so many intangibles–timing, who you meet, what opportunities you learn about, which ones you pursue, the chemistry, internship and job options, weather, housing, etc. Each student has varying degrees of readiness to embrace the environment they end up in as well. How much one particular experience or environment will affect any individual is anyone’s guess.</p>
<p>One of the pleasures of CC is learning about different schools and paths, with pretty much same goals in mind.</p>
<p>Old-time CCers may recall that the worm decided to apply to college 2 days before winter break of his junior year. Thinking CS, He had a few reaches; CMU, MIT, and Caltech. I didn’t think about Vandy, RIT, Olin, etc. What I’ve learned over the past 6 years is that there is no “best fit”; some paths could have saved us $100,00+, summer jobs/internships matter a lot, etc. I do think a shy young man benefitted from being in a House all 4 years, and being in a smaller college allowed him to get involved with ECs. There was clearly no one right school.</p>
<p>I agree with starbright’s post but now I just wish other parents IRL would just think the same way. D has chosen to attend a very small state school in the south which is eliciting annoying reactions and comments. She has her reasons and is a very responsible and level headed person. They think WE are the crazy ones for allowing her to go there. This experience is putting a downer on her senior year.</p>
<p>Lilmom, ignore them. Nobody really knows what is going on in other people’s lives, or what is best for other people. This is a teachable moment for your daughter, because annoying reactions and comments will happen about everything in her life, from relationships to work to marriage to pregnancy- yada, yada, yada. If she’s happy, that’s all that matters.</p>
<p>Going to an elite university guarantees you nothing but possibly a first look at a first job. While that can be important, excellent performance at other schools will get you the same thing. After that, performance matters. Of course, the elite students at elite universities will generally perform well - they are bright and driven. The elite students who are bright and driven at other competent colleges will also do very well. Most of the “money” where I live isn’t from high tech, financial sector, or professional folks, it comes from savvy business people who graduated from local institutions. That may be harder to replicate now with fewer opportunities to succeed in local businesses given the existing competition, but bright motivated people generally find a way. </p>
<p>The “Colleges that Change Lives” book made strong arguments based on performance and outcomes for each of the colleges listed therein. “Reed” was considered elite back in my day, but I had not heard of most of the others. The bottom line seems to be that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and although the Ivy league way of flaying felines is tried and true, it is hardly the only way, or the right way, or the best way for everyone. </p>
<p>Parental and filial pride in going to incredibly exclusive schools is understandable because it is a difficult trick to accomplish. It is not, however, the end of the race or an indicator of who has “won” or “lost.” One’s performance in college and thereafter counts a great deal no matter what college you attend.</p>
My son’s experience, based on his soph and jun summer internships, and placement for his classmates and seniors, was different. His internships were both great opportunities, and the overwhelming majority of interns were from the highly rated schools, and there were none from the low-tier schools. There was similar placement for all of his inner-circle of friends in his major.</p>
<p>These companies did visits and interviews at selected schools, so on a career day, a student at a top school had this opportunity presented at his doorstep. And internships unquestionably can provide a huge boost for a job.</p>
<p>So maybe the elite university’s primary impact is on a first job, but it’s certainly more than just a “first look” advantage.</p>
<p>What does a first job out of college mean these days? Who stays in that first job or even along the first career path for very long any more? For particular career paths, particularly Wall Street related endeavors, HYP certainly makes more difference than in others. A relatively small segment of the student population at HYP institutions choose that path. If graduate school is the goal, many LACs and top state universities have great track records for graduate school admission. </p>
<p>For climbing the corporate ladder in the financial sector right out of college, perhaps you are correct, but that is a pyramid scaled to the top by very few, and abandoned by many after a few years as a highly paid but overworked cog in the machine. What you have described sounds exactly like a “first look at a first job.” The recruiters came to “elite” schools first and hired interns, who became associates, etc. I suspect that if Occidental College (no connection to me or my kids) was not on that list, that a top student from Occidental with demonstrated excellence and detailed recommendations could crack a door open for an interview. Occidental has produced Rhodes scholars (or at least one, Kris Kristopherson) and other highly successful graduates. I am not saying that top students from poorly regarded schools (I don’t put Occidental in that category) will necessarily have the same opportunity, just that if they actually are bright and motivated, they will find their own path.</p>
<p>Besides, don’t go confusing me with actual facts. Making points without authorities is much easier.</p>