A Daughter Just Wanting a Dream..

Parents Forum
21

<p>I do think 12K a year can be a big deal for a family. Even if the parents can on paper swing the extra loans, it doesn't mean it is a prudent decision. The whole definition of "can the parent afford it" has a lot of variation. On one side it is that the parent can "afford" it in that they have a teeny bit of cash stashed away and can qualify for the loans but it leaves their meager situation empty. In the middle it means the parent can "afford" it but it makes their retirement fund take a risky ding. On the other side it can mean the parent give up other luxuries such as retiring a few years earlier or that trip they always wanted to take. Let's not judge those parents, either.</p>

<p>There are very very very few parents who really can "afford" it, where it is money that isn't needed, isn't missed, and doesn't gut the chance of doing anything fun once in awhile or able to contemplate being able to retire before the age of 70+ these days.</p>

<p>In short, "dream" colleges are luxuries and I believe if the parents have determined 12K a year is what they can contribute, this is far far more than many parents can do and the daughter should trust her parents assessment of the family's financial soundness AND the family's <em>values</em> about what is worth spending money on. Dream colleges often have a high premium slapped on top that many parents-as-consumers don't value and shouldn't have to value.</p>

<p>The daughter always has the choice of working for 3 or 4 years and saving up the money herself. I know people who've done that route. She's got 50 years until retirement. Her parents only have a few. It's EASY to spend other people's money.</p>

<p>I have a friend who did 4 years in the Marines, followed by 2 years of community college, followed by acceptance at Stanford, their "dream" school. There is simply no reason to gut a parent's finances when there are literally 100s of other routes, colleges and options out there. </p>

<p>Put another way, it is too easy to get a Disneyland "dream" vision of college A being the "perfect/dream college". I'm not saying it wouldn't potentially be great. It could also be a burnout situation, too. There are no guarantees. But being stuck on one and only one college to get to her goals is a sign of youthful immaturity -- especially when the cost of attending THAT college was never cleared with the parents in the first place.</p>

<p>Sure, the daughter can sit down and have more talks with the parents. But I really think the best advice for her is that she needs to get more realistic about issues of money and do a rapid reassess of the unworkable aspects of her "dream". The use of the word "dream" should be a big clue to all involved that she doesn't have her feet firmly planted in reality at the moment.</p>

<p>Annika</p>

22

<p>I am horrified at the D's attitude. Like many, many others I never got to go to a dream college- we were stuck at a State U, luckily for me an excellent one. She's talking about many thousands of dollars for her parents to borrow, plus when the word retirement is mentioned- does this mean they will take from or not fund their retirement plans? They should never do that. Tough luck kid- welcome to the real world.</p>

23

<p>The family needs to make a decision about the finances. If THEY think they can swing the loans and want to do so, that is their decision. Some families would find this doable, and others would not. </p>

<p>Since we made the decision to allow our child to go to a dream school (that was an excellent choice!!) over going where the money was...I would never tell anyone what else to do. It's each family's decision.</p>

24

<p>Over $30,000/yr. in loans for an undergraduate education is ridiculous.</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
I don't know how to express that to my parents without sounding ungrateful. Because every way I think of saying it I think of them hearing me say, "well if you don't support me i can do it myself. so whatever." I just don't want to hurt them like that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There is no way you will be approved for those kind of loans, let alone be in a position to pay them back with your educational/professional plans. A realistic option is to take a new attitude regarding where you can attend college and share it with your parents.</p>

<p>I was thinking of this situation today while watching a show on middleclass home owners who are now facing foreclosure. One of the homes was owned by a woman who took out a second mortgage so her daughter could go to Yale. The circumstances of her life changed and that second mortgage became a noose around her neck. Contrary to what the OP seems to believe, hard work is not the only factor.</p>

<p>Many people think it's not a risk to take out 50K in loans for their child's education, most of them are wrong. Many students think they will be in a position to pay back 70K, most of them are wrong as well.</p>

26

<p>"But living within your means is just so boring...lol. I'm just kidding. I understand what you're saying." - I hope that you truly do understand. Living withing means is being in control, which is great fun and great life. Putting others in control of your life makes it restricted and boring.</p>

27

<p>Others have commented to the OP helpfully, but I think a clarification is necessary here--the Parent Loan is not Financial Aid. Many private colleges cover the calculated need with grants and student loans, and then for the EFC, offer the Parent Loan, as expressed here.</p>

<p>My S's school did that. It calculated our EFC as X, then covered the rest with college grant and Stafford. After that, it offered X amt of Parent Loan if we wished to go that route for covering our EFC. We chose not to, but I don't have the problem that they offered another option.</p>

<p>There is nothing scam, rip-off, or shortchanging about this. Whether or not that route is one a family chooses is a personal decision for each family, but that's a different question.</p>

<p>to add, this is often what I think is the situation when schools are reported as "offering insane amounts of loan as financial aid." This reflects a misunderstanding of what is going on in many cases.</p>

28

<p>Looked at Op's title again....
Op is NOT "a daughter just wanting a dream". She is a daughter wanting parents to provide most of the funding for her dream. A big difference.
Op needs to realize any money/time/effort a parent puts toward student's college education is a gift. Not a requirement, not a necessity, not an obligation; a gift. Children are so used to be given most everything by parents(I was) that they don't always realize when they are college age the gravy train becomes optional.</p>

<p>I recommend OP get back on reality train and do hard figures of HER expected income after HER education and then look at what debt she can comfortably incur. Then look at what gift parents are willing and able to offer. Try to see college as an investment. It is intended to provide a career you like, and a better lifestyle. Don't put yourself in so much debt that you must live like a pauper- you could do that without college! And don't put your parents into years of debt either.</p>

29

<p>Thank you all for your comments. It was a terrible idea for me to post this here because honestly I shouldn't value other people's opinions who won't have to deal with the consequences of my actions. My family knows that they can swing this without having to take out a second mortgage or being in a ridiculous amount of debt. As for me needing to "find myself." been there, done that, found. I'm a multi talented amazing young woman with an extremely bright future. I would also like to defend myself about not being grounded. Yes I have a dream. Yes this is my dream college. Just because some of you had to defer your dreams doesn't mean that everyone has to. Everyone faces a different "reality" so I'm not sure how some of you are talking about "reality" when in "reality" some of you are probably facing foreclosure when someone else is about to take a trip to the south of France? We all live different lives and it was stupid of me to think that someone else may be going through the same situation and could give me insight when my situation is unique for me and my family. Way too many variables to consider that probably only my parents and I would understand.</p>

30

<p>JustJose, Not getting what you want is not a dream deferred unless you choose that ending. </p>

<p>You can reach beyond your years, accept what your freely parents offered with deep gratitude and change your dream to reflect that respect for them. That can be a new dream. </p>

<p>I spoke to you as an adult and being an adult is far more difficult than being a child. Best of luck to you and to your family.</p>

31

<p>So, let me get this straight. You want to attend a college that would require that your parents borrow over thirty thousand dollars a year. Your parents say they can afford twelve thousand dollars a year. You say, but you really really really want to go to this school.</p>

<p>You seem to be operating under a misapprehension. You seem to think that if you explain things better, your parents will suddenly agree to going over a hundred thousand dollars in debt for your college. No no no. In all probability they know perfectly well how much you want to go to this school but they can't afford it.</p>

<p>You mention that your parents own two other houses in addition to their primary residence, and you seem to think this means they are rich rich rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Maybe, but housing values are dropping like an anvil down a mine shaft right now. They might not have any equity in those houses at all (in other words, if they bought the houses within the last seven years there's a good chance they'd clear nothing if they sold them.)</p>

<p>Being an adult means dealing in a realistic way with what you can and cannot afford. Unfortunately, you can't afford this California college.</p>

32

<p>Cardinal Fang: They wouldn't need to borrow over thirty thousand a year. As i've said before it is just silly for me to try to explain my situation seeing as every situation is different. That is just what the fin aid letter said. I don't think that they are "rich rich" but I do know what they have and after posting and seeing some crazy replies we talked about it. They're not planning to sell their other house. As I said in a previous comment I don't know why I even posted this because none of you will have to deal with what choice I make and no one knows my situation. I also didn't word my situation properly but that's fine.</p>

33

<p>PugmadKate: uhm i'm not sure that i really understand what you're saying, "accept what your freely parents offered" freely parents? not understanding sorry. I can understand that being an adult is far more difficult than being a child. Wouldn't that be sort of obvious? But some "children" live far more difficult lives than I ever will as an adult. It is just my personal belief that someone's life difficulties doesn't depend on their age.
But thank you for your comment.</p>

34

<p>As a parent of a college bound daughter....As much as I want to hand her the gift of a fully paid college education, that's just not possible. She is smart and responsible. She worked really hard to excell in school and wants to attend a challenging college. Here is what we have decided to do. She has applied for every scholarship known to mankind. She probably won't get any of them. She is a bright, white, avg girl. Not too many scholarships for that catagory. I am giving her $30k ( I still have two other kids to educate). She needs to get as much grant/scholarship money as she can. The rest she will have to assume college loans. </p>

<p>This will have a bearing on what school she ultimately chooses. How much does she want to owe? I also told her ....while I can't give her any guarantee....if the economy picks up and I start earning more $$$ ( I'm in real estate) I will help pay of some loans. </p>

<p>I....like your parents...have fewer earning years left than you do. I CAN'T take on that much debt and still ensure my retirement. Not unless I end up living with my daughter:) </p>

<p>You really need to look at the whole picture.</p>

<p>I totally agree....is your education going to cost more than you will reasonably be able to pay back with your expected salary? It's an investment...make it a wise one. </p>

<p>All the best to you.</p>

35

<p>JustJose, I get that your sorry you asked, and these answers aren't relevant to YOUR situation, so perhpas you don't need to follow this thread anymore. I hope you won't mind too much though, if folks keep posting on your thread, because this DOES apply to most families.</p>

<p>We made a decision to finance my D's "dream school" a year ago, but we don't know if we would do the same today. And we are paying from savings and current income. No loans. But the savings is much less than it was a year ago. Who knows where we will be next year?</p>

36

<p>
[quote]
It was a terrible idea for me to post this here because honestly I shouldn't value other people's opinions who won't have to deal with the consequences of my actions. My family knows that they can swing this without having to take out a second mortgage or being in a ridiculous amount of debt.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You can ask for advice. That is a wise thing to do. But, if you ask for advice without giving the entire picture, then you will get advice that is not applicable to you. You claim your parents can afford it (more than the $12,000 they offered). [BTW: that is what PugmadKate meant by "accept what your freely parents offered" - the $12,000/yr is freely offered] If we had the particulars, we might be able to give you suggestions on framing the argument. How do we know whether you are missing some important things? You think they can cashflow the college. Maybe they need the "extra" that you see to set aside for their retirement, pay for a new roof for the house, new furnace, new car, etc. What about the tax implications of renting out the houses? Did you factor that into your calculations? It is not that we can't give you advice because we are not going to live with the consequences, it is that we don't have all the information that you do.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I was just wondering how I should go about showing them that I really want this.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>One way is to show them how YOU can make it work financially.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And that I really believe we can make it work if we all try hard. For some reason they think that college should be this thing that comes easy, when in actuality for me things that come easy aren't really valued as much.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>"things that come easy aren't really valued as much." - From who's perspective? The education is to be a value to YOU, not to your parents. Thus, YOU are the one who needs to do the hard work. If they did all the work and just gave the college education to you, maybe YOU wouldn't value it.</p>

<p>You parents offered $12,000 per year. The parent part of the aid is $24,600 (parent loans). I presume there is no other EFC they are expected to fund. That leaves you with a $12,600/yr gap.</p>

<p>How about this: Go to school part time, and get a part time job (6 year plan?). Two benefits:</p>

<p>1) Your earnings help to pay the gap; and
2) Your parents contribution is extended a few years. Instead of $48,000 ($12,000/yr for 4 years) you might be able to get $72,000 ($12,000/yr for 6 years).</p>

<p>There would be 2 more years of room and board to pay, but if you could earn $10,000/yr part-time, the combination of the two will fill the gap, and you may even have less loans when you graduate.</p>

<p>Your dream college would then be something YOU earned, and you will value the experience and degree that much more.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I was wondering from a parental point of view how do you all feel about 2 years at a community college then transferring to a university?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It works in certain situations, but I don't think it will work for you. It is your dream college. That is what you are trying to accomplish.</p>

37

<p>I like your post(36) operadad. You gave many good examples of what they(parents) might need their other money for. Let me add another: the parents might want their money. If they've worked for their incomes and houses, they might not be so quick to want to give it away, and I see no problem with that. The OP seems to feel that if she can find more parents' revenue then that additional money should be extra to pay for her schooling. Whether these parents are a 1/2 step above paupers or a half step under Bill Gates doesn't change that their willingness to give is their choice. Sometimes giving less is giving more...</p>

38

<p>I totally agree. I wasn't really going to look at this post anymore but I never even thought about being a part time student. your post was amazing thank you.</p>

39

<p>Younghoss - Your posting makes a very good point. The parents' financial situation and decision to fund any portion of a college education is actually their own business, which is something that parents (myself included) forget in this process. It doesn't actually matter if kids 1-8 were totally funded but kid 9 is going to get zip. It doesn't matter if a kid can only go to YHP if parents give $10, but the parents refuse to pay $10. For every kid who says a parent will "only" pay $10,000 towards an education, there is another kid begging and scraping to come up with that $10,000 without any parental help at all. Parents may have promised college to kids by diligently saving in mutual funds -- that are now worthless, so the parents can no longer honor their promise. Each example is unfair and traumatic, but within the parents' perogative. </p>

<p>Opera Dad does a good job of responding to OP's dilemma. I think OP writes extraordinarily well for a high school kid. I hope that there are some useful suggestions in this thread that will either help OP develop a strategy to attend dream school, or to accept that an alternative school can also offer a valuable college experience.</p>

40

<p>Often times, if you're covered under your parent's medical insurance policy, coverage ends when the child is over the age of 18 and not a full time student. If you decide to go to college as a part-time student, be sure to check with your parent's health insurance company to see if your medical coverage will end.</p>