<p>ESSR181,</p>
<p>with all due respect, these are extremely simple, basic questions that are easily found practically everywhere. a simple search for example on this site alone will yield you most of what you are asking.</p>
<p>to be honest, you don't seem nearly resourceful enough to ever get into -- let alone make it in i-banking.</p>
<p>better to know that earlier rather than later.</p>
<p>...btw, there is really no need to take the Lord's name in vain -- I find that extremely offensive.</p>
<p>he does have the right to speak his mind. In general terms, it is not indicative of vaulgar language. I personally have no problem with it.</p>
<p>"to be honest, you don't seem nearly resourceful enough to ever get into -- let alone make it in i-banking."</p>
<p>Are you kidding? How do they screen for resourcefulness in an interview? That seems like an impossibly tough thing to screen for considering that many non-resourceful people make it to the feeder schools.</p>
<p>
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he does have the right to speak his mind.
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</p>
<p>I never said he didn't have a right to speak his mind.</p>
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In general terms, it is not indicative of vaulgar [sic] language. I personally have no problem with it.
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<p>Good for you. I never said I spoke for you.</p>
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Are you kidding? How do they screen for resourcefulness in an interview?
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</p>
<p>huh? i was merely observing that the person asking very basic, very simple questions every other post doesn't exhibit either the knowledge or the ability to find the freely available information to answer those basic, very simple questions (i.e. RESOURCEFULNESS). i never said that i-bankers screen for resourcefulness. i was merely observing the lack of such by the poster.</p>
<p>Fair enough. It seemed that there was the implication of needing a certain amount of resourcefulness to get into Ibanking. That seems far fetched, I doubt more resourcefulness is needing for ibanking than hundreds of other careers.</p>
<p>Ok, conjecture (or, more fittingly, attacks) about my qualities as a person aside, does anybody want to answer my question?</p>
<p>To a couple of the questions - yes in i-banking that is the sad reality, jobs in trading are different but in your first couple of years you will still be doing a lot of grunt work but the hours are better (e.g. 7am-7pm or so). </p>
<p>To the person who asked if there was any way to work more efficiently so the hours wouldn't be that bad - NO. It is not about inefficient working, you have to remember most of the people in i-banking are hardcore Type-A personalities that are pretty good about not slacking off and procrastinating. The problem is you have to stick around the office often just putting in face time, it's not like you come in in the morning and there is a list of things you have to do and after that you can go home. In your first couple of years there will be a ton of things dropped on your desk at 6pm or later by your managing director that he wants done by the morning. So now you have to do those, plus you have to wait for other people to complete things a lot of times. I was always in trading but most of my friends were in banking, getting out of the office at 10pm or earlier for them was rare when they were analysts or 1st/2nd year associates. </p>
<p>Why do people do this? The answer is obvious, the big money. You won't make the kind of money you can make on Wall Street at such a young age anywhere else unless you're a professional athlete/actor or you start a very successful business. You will pretty much give up your 20s though. It's a work/life balance thing you have to find, most i-bankers I know don't have a good balance. Even after they're in their 30s and have families and are making seven-figures they still work sick hours and never see their kids. The best exit plan is to be good enough to go to a hedge fund or PE shop. Those guys have good hours and get paid well, but remember it's hard to get into a good hedge fund especially these days with everyone trying to get in. </p>
<p>Put it this way, if some college kid asks me what he should do if he wants to have a high probability of making a lot of money and doesn't care about how hard the work is I would tell him to become a Wall Street banker. BUT I would NEVER want my own kids (if I ever have any) to become bankers. It is not a great way to live despite the huge bank account you'll have.</p>
<p>Thanks for that response, very comprehensive.</p>
<p>How much do traders make?</p>
<p>Its hard to say because it can vary so much depending on the firm, the desk you're on, and you're own performance. Trading isn't good for people that don't have the "eat what you kill" mentality. In i-banking you can be mediocre and do well, that is harder to do in trading where it's easier to see what you contribute. The highest paid trader amongst my friends (he's a couple years older, I think 31 right now) makes over a million, around 1.5mm this last year. He works at GS and is on one of their most profitable desks, he also has a PhD and an MBA. You can expect post-MBA salaries for trading to be almost the same as associates in banking but with a little more upside potential. After that though trading can be much better or worse. The thing to keep in mind with trading is you can't do it long, go to any trading floor and you'll see a small number of people in thier 40s and probably none in their 50s. A few will make it into top management positions, some will have made enough to retire lavishly, many more will have made enough to retire comfortably, but many also burn out and/or can't compete with the younger guys anymore and move more into advisory roles or traditional types of fund management. If you're looking for longevity in your career banking is better than trading, with trading you have to have a good exit plan to use while you are still relatively young.</p>
<p>"You will pretty much give up your 20s though. "</p>
<p>Except if you work in S&T. Coming into the office a few hours before the markets open and leaving it at about 6 or 7 doesn't sound that bad to me. You don't work on weekends either, so that's IMO a big plus too. The S&T ppl I know who work in London all work about 11 hours a day. I admit that if you work in IBD, you're bascially screwed, but S&T doesn't seem that bad to me. </p>
<p>SilverSpy, do you have any tips for a prospective salesman? I'm more interested in equities than fixed income as of right now, any thoughts would be appreciated?</p>
<p>Will the trading job of which you speak even exist in 5, 10, 20 years?</p>
<p>Holy ***! And I thought The Sorrow of Young Werther was a depressing read. This article takes the cake for "legitimate reason for killing yourself."</p>
<p>I am actually kind of glad to hear this. After going through 4 years of engineering undergrad, Id have a hard time believing there is a harder major out there. Its good to hear that people who go through business (which is much easier in my opinion) really do earn their pay.</p>
<p>"There s no Asian/Black/Hispanic employed at your bank except the one who comes every Thursday to shine shoes."</p>
<p>Ummm....there are a ton of Asians at most major i-banks, for blacks and hispanics though, his characterization is more accurate. </p>
<p>All in all, I'd say the description of his day is pretty fair, and if anything the reality is probably even more dreary.</p>
<p>I mean, the thing is, you can always quit. go work for a nonprofit or something. go be a teacher. there's lots of things you can do - but you'd be giving up the lifestyle to which you've become accustomed.</p>
<p>oh, and:
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...btw, there is really no need to take the Lord's name in vain -- I find that extremely offensive.
[/quote]
for pete's sake, it's a message board. it's in electronic media, cast out over a server somewhere. you find his thoughts, as expressed by fingers hitting the keys, to be offensive?</p>
<p>Maybe you wouldn't make it in i-banking either, mr. thin-skin.</p>
<p>^^I think he already made it in investment banking for years.</p>
<p>Oh, don't worry about him, that little issue has been sorted out.</p>