<p>Spriteling, thank you for addressing a lot of my questions/concerns. So much of what you mentioned was news to me so I am glad to be more informed about the whole process. I appreciate you sharing your experience and I wish you the best as you finish up your PhD.</p>
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<p>Did I express fear? I didn’t mean to. I think that my son is very naive about what is involved in pursuing academia. I just want him to be aware of what he is up against considering that it sounds like a very demanding and challenging pursuit.</p>
<p>Bookworm, I’m not sure what Big Math is. Could you please explain? Also, what is the current reality?</p>
<p>It’s better sometimes not to know in advance, bogibogi. From my standpoint, no rational person would select a faculty career in a STEM field at one of the top research universities if he/she knew in advance what that would probably require. It is only after one is deeply immersed in the subject that the sacrifices–which there are–start to make sense. Later on, one stops even noticing them.</p>
<p>I think there is an exception for people who are absolutely blow-them-out-of-the-water brilliant. These few people probably have a higher than average success rate with grant applications, which reduces the stress considerably and the workload somewhat. On the other hand, I was speaking recently with a young professor who seems to me to be close to once-in-a-generation brilliant in his particular specialty, but who said that his initial success rate with grants was only about 10%.</p>
<p>My d. will be finishing up next year. (Or so the theory goes.) She’ll have a dual Ph.D. that prepares her for all kinds of jobs - in the late 16th Century and for men only. (Musicology/Italian Studies.) But she can always be a GREAT tour guide. Her grant success rate seems to be slightly over 50% at this point (and there are far fewer grant opportunities than in the STEM fields.) She lives cheaply - give her a room with books and music (both to listen to and to “read”), a computer hookup, a couple of cups of coffee, and some pasta with mushrooms, and she’s good to go. Drives a 1998 car (which is three years newer than mine.)</p>
<p>Her apartment is a mess, but she’s organized in her own way. Organizes major conferences - in musicology, Italian, and Renaissance studies. Invites everyone, moderates, administers, pays the bills. Gives lots of papers at conference, prepares papers for publication. Teaches, and advises students on their senior theses. Currently living in a pink palace in Venice.</p>
<p>Frankly, her work takes advantage of all of her skills. I expect she’ll find one of those rare tenured positions, mostly because of her versatility.</p>
<p>If your son loves math, loves to teach, and doesn’t care about being rich, then why not consider being a math teacher?</p>
<p>In the public school arena, he will get tenure pretty much automatically after only a few years.</p>
<p>In the private school arena, there are all kinds of interesting possibilities, including working at international schools in exotic countries, and working in boarding schools where he would get housing and board.</p>
<p>I have some teacher friends who do the int’l circuit and some who teach in boarding schools. They LOVE it.</p>
<p>One of DH’s colleagues did not get tenure at our research university and ended up going to teach at a smaller and less prestigious college. He was crushed at the time, though no one was surprised because of his lack of publications. Ultimately he is probably much happier than he would have been if he had stayed at the U.</p>
<p>Having said that, if you love to teach math and can land a position at one of the top math schools you get to teach classes full of kids who live and breathe math. At a lesser school you may be lucky to have a handful of those kids every year. Some would find this just as fulfilling but many would not.</p>
<p>GMT, that’s a great idea and something to consider since he really enjoys tutoring high school students. However, I worry that that may not be as fulfilling as he would like. As 1moremom mentions, his ideal place would be overflowing with people who live and breathe math. His goal is to get a job where he can talk about math all day long. Not only to share his knowledge, but also to learn from others.</p>
<p>I left academia shortly after getting tenure at a research university. I was in the sciences. It is a very flexible career in some ways in that you don’t really have a boss and apart from when you need to be in the classroom, your hours are flexible, but the work is demanding and stressful. You also need to be good at stuff you dont normally think of as “academia” like sales (selling your ideas for grant money) marketing (attract students to your group, get invited to speak at meetings) personnel management (mentoring students, moderating arguments between them) and finance (getting, spending grant money.). But if you are not good at some of these things, it is not the end of the world. You will learn as you go or other strengths will overshadow weaknesses. Enjoying teaching and being good at it is important too, and if you enjoy it, it makes the job funner, but at a research university, your tenure will be decided mainly on research productivity. </p>
<p>Is he prepared to live just about anywhere in the country? He may need to be flexible in where he lives, because there may not be faculty position openings everywhere in a given year.</p>
<p>DH also has a colleague who did get tenure and then focused more on teaching. He’s been the Director of Undergraduate Studies for many years and has won numerous teaching and advising awards. He is well respected by colleagues for his contributions to the department and the students love him.</p>
<p>Really, there aren’t faculty position openings everywhere in a given year. I think my DS realizes that he will need to go where the job is, regardless of whether or not he would otherwise choose to live there. Another problem facing a lot of young academics is the “two body problem”. They meet someone in grad school who also aspires to an academic career and then they are tasked with finding two jobs at one university (or in the same city) in the same year.</p>
<p>@bogibogi, I am not a teacher, but I work overseas and move to an assignment in another country every few years with my kids who have attended int’l schools. The teachers at the schools also change countries, but some stay put and teach in the same school practically their whole career. It’s a great way to see the world.</p>
<p>Apart from the downsides of an academic career, I should mention that there are times of absolute ecstasy when you discover something significant. That is not likely to happen often–there can be runs of four or five years at a time when one is doing work that is good, solid, and productive, but doesn’t yield anything really important. </p>
<p>To QMP, I have likened the work to climbing a mountain in the dark. Much of the time, you are working very hard to move upward. Then occasionally, there is a lightning flash, and you see that the mountain is made entirely of crystal. You see into the very roots of the mountain. Then the flash is over, and you’re climbing upward in the dark again.</p>
<p>Being self-directed is a real plus.</p>
<p>Another benefit is that there are not too many unbreakable time commitments. If you have a sick child, who needs to be taken to the pediatrician, you can schedule that around your class(es), and do not need to delay nor to arrange permission. You’ll probably wind up working later into the night that day or later on, but there is a good amount of flexibility, within the time constraints of the work itself.</p>
<p>That is a wonderful thing when you have a family. When our kids were home, and even now, generally, my husband is home for dinner (and then works from home a few more hours later in the evening). Growing up in a university town can be great; our kids learned to swim, play tennis and fence on campus, taught by student athletes. They attended university run science and art camps. They were able to take college classes while in high school. We were able to travel as a family to a couple of international conferences and then tack on additional vacation time. Our university also has good childcare on campus.</p>
<p>My husband is a tenured STEM professor, and our son is currently in a PhD program in a STEM field.</p>
<p>The employment prospects for our son (in a tenure-track academic position) are not great, but he loves what he’s doing and has good funding so why not? He has no illusions about the future, but the present is good.</p>
<p>The biggest downside to this profession, as someone stated earlier, is that there is absolutely no choice whatsoever in where you live. If you are lucky enough to get a job offer, that’s where you go.</p>
<p>The biggest upside is that your time is your own. My husband works at least 80/hours a week and is not well paid, but except for class time and meeting time (of which there are more and more) he decides what to do when. There is a lot of flexibility, which is nice. And then there are the sabbaticals. We have lived overseas twice and that has been wonderful. Our kids have experienced foreign cultures and schools and have been world travelers ever since! We are currently in the planning stages for our third sabbatical.</p>
<p>This is actually a good point. However, ironically, if you teach at the top private or public magnets, then you do teach these types of high-level kids., kids who live and breathe math. Also, you can teach high level college classes like number theory, abstract algebra, etc.</p>
<p>My son is into pure math and will be applying for phd programs this fall. Not a big surprise, as he has been in love with math since about the age of 2. I love the way he lights up when he talks about math and tries to explain what he’s studying.</p>
<p>Right now, he’d like to teach at a university but I don’t know if he’s considered other avenues, or if this is just the most obvious path for him. I don’t know if he knows the reality of being post phd work - what it means to look for jobs, grants etc.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tips and information! This is a great discussion,</p>
<p>This is a little worrisome because his personality does not lend itself to excelling in some of these areas. It will be good for him to know this upfront though, so that he is aware of any non-academic things he will be responsible for. He is prepared to live anywhere he is offered a position, so flexibility is not a problem.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to pry LBowie, but why would one leave academia when one has achieved tenure? It sounds like it is such a coveted position that most professors would be lifelong academics. (I could be wrong since I know nothing about this stuff).</p>
<p>GMTplus7, that sounds so wonderful! What a priceless experience for your family!</p>
<p>QuantMech, I really enjoyed your analogy; I’ll have to share it with my kid. It sounds like persistence is essential and not losing confidence will make all the difference.</p>
<p>Now that some of you have highlighted some of the positive aspects of being a professor, I’m really excited for my kid. I just need to temper it knowing that there will also be some non-appealing aspects. Thanks everyone for all the input.</p>
<p>How old is your son bogibogi? As an undergrad (and before) my son was incredibly scattered and disorganized at times. (E.g., he put all of his shorts in summer storage before he left school after spring semester.) He has improved a lot in handling practical matters; he travels to international conferences and actually helped organize one this summer, including handling the logistics of transportation and lodging. (I was previously impressed when he had managed to pick up bagels for a seminar.) He also won a teaching award from his department when I always thought research would be his strength.</p>
<p>Python, my son was also two when we realized he had the math “gene”. When he was young he used to run around the soccer field with pencil and paper in his pocket in case he had to write something down; it drove me crazy.</p>
<p>These things are much more relevant for people who run labs. You do have to apply for grants as a mathematician, but this is not really ability to be a salesman; it is really more the ability to write. If people think he’s a good teacher; chances are he’s good at writing as well.</p>
<p>Don’t operate from a position of fear, because that can hold your son back.</p>