A Few Questions As I Start My Search

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi. I'm a nerdy sophomore starting my search for the perfect source of higher education for me. For a month or two, I've begun to recieve mail from colleges with connections with the College Board and my PSAT scores. This and my yearly conference with my guidance counselor has motivated me to try and make some sense of my future before I have to. I'm kind of obsessed with it now...</p>

<p>Anyway, my credentials:
- Weighted GPA of 4.679 and Rank of 16 out of around 530 (top 3%)
- PSAT Score of 205 (97th percentile), or 68/66/71 (98th, 97th, and 99th percentiles, respectively)
- PLAN Score of 27 (99th percentile), or 24/29/27/29 (94th/99th/99th/99th)</p>

<p>So I'm smart. I'm also into extracurriculars, with my currents being NJROTC [a Navy-ish thing I don't plan to continue Junior Year] Track [which I'm only slighltly above average at and am not totally devoted to] and various activist pursuits that [I LOVE and that] I've yet to quantify into an actual school club of any sort, but through some positive change at my school regarding gays and dances.</p>

<p>I want a college that:
- is selective/prestigious enough to suit my ego
- isn't too big or too small; a suburban/college town
- Provides some liberal arts [which I both love and find vaguely important] while teaching me technical skills and preping me for graduate school
- is far from the South and its conservative tendencies, especially my home state; I'd prefer to play activist after college if I still feel compelled
- provides enough financial aid so that it along with scholarships, grants, etc. will leave me with few loans; I'm in the lower middle class but I also need to be relatively independent from my poor/hateful parents
- preferably isn't any more than 90% white, though I'd likely not care if it was 99%</p>

<p>Along with advice based on that, I'd also like some realism on liberal arts colleges and prospects on my ease of acceptance at the most selective colleges.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your help. Seriously.</p>

2

<p>Rankings are worthless when evaluating colleges, but they can be useful as a starting point. Look at the liberal arts school rankings (it sounds like that’s what you want) and research some schools that pique your interest. You won’t have to make any commitments in the near future, but this is a good time to get a feel for what you want to look for.</p>

3

<p>Wow, that was quick. You’re awesome.</p>

<p>When I read about liberal arts colleges, they’re either advertisements or vague statistics. And negative perspectives are more compelling. </p>

<p>They make the liberal arts schools seem like hippie/feminist/activist-filled, drug-infested wastes of monetary input.</p>

<p>Unless those views are wrong or overexaggerated, I’d rather go to a national college that can provide me some of the liberal arts experience. Why not just minor in a liberal arts field?</p>

4

<p>It’s very hard to tell how good of a chance you have until at least part of the way through junior year, since that is the point you know the probable GPA most colleges will see. Ditto for taking the SAT, although that is a bit more predictable. With that said, it looks like you have a reasonable chance at the top schools right now. Your ECs are your weak point- if you drop ROTC, be sure to pick up something else. Putting your activism into a club or some other form would definitely help, though it sounds like it might make things more difficult for you. Are you interested in any particular subjects, or do you need a school that’s good at a lot of things? (I want to wish you good luck with handling money and your parents. Assuming I haven’t read you wrong, I can understand the fear of being dependent on hateful parents, although I got lucky enough that it wasn’t a reality.)</p>

<p>(Actually, reading back over your post, I think I was a little confused by your wording- is it that you haven’t joined a club involving activism but have made progress regarding your school’s policy on dances, or that you haven’t joined a club and want to change that policy?)</p>

5

<p>A lot of supposed liberal arts sectors of larger schools aren’t effective in creating the same mentality and such as a school dedicating itself entirely to liberal arts. Sometimes, it’s just a couple faculty members who do nothing more than teach a few different classes and plan an ice cream social. So if you’re really interested in the liberal arts vibe, the only sure way you’re going to get it is by applying to some actual LAC’s. Plus, if you live in a very conservative and not diverse area where all anyone says is that those schools are “hippie/feminist/activist-filled, drug-infested wastes of monetary input”, maybe you’re not quite as much of an activist as you like to think. They’re great schools.</p>

6

<p>While liberal arts schools can be great, they also aren’t for everyone. There’s a big difference between a small college with a lot of guidance and a heavy core curriculum, a big one with easily disposed-of graduation requirements and little guidance, and a medium college balancing somewhere in-between. If you get the chance, travel to a college-heavy area and take tours on a few different campuses with very different schools- this will DEFINITELY help. Also keep on mind how you view core curriculums (curricula?)- if they seem restricting to you, take it to heart! You should also remember that ‘liberal arts college’ is a despicably vague term, and many, if not most, colleges will not fit incredibly well into the three molds I mentioned, nor the stereotype that you did. If what you want to avoid is “hippie/feminist/activist-filled, drug-infested wastes of monetary input” (though why you would want to avoid somewhere infested with activists when that seems to be your favorite activity is beyond me, and I do find your inclusion of feminists a little offensive), you would be much better off looking at schools on a case-by-case basis of ‘personality’ than trying to lump them all together by liberal arts and non-liberal arts.</p>

7

<p>@wolfran: I’m dropping NJROTC to make room for more ECs. It was particularly draining this year since I got a staff position and I lost the bulk my chances at promotion from my activism.
I want to focus more on multiple extracurriculars based on community service and student gov’t while also pursuing some nerdy things to indulge on. Things both I and colleges will like. And even my parents, since they have to drive me home.</p>

<p>My interests vary greatly. The PSAT’s personality test put me in Region 99; they couldn’t give me any leads. I have an equal preoccupation with writing, the social sciences like history/philosophy/psychology/politics, and actual science, especially biology and medicine. I tend to develop a love/appreciation for all of my classes.</p>

<p>The activism was very successful and has affected school policy already and is expected to affect district policy. It’s also expected to affect the policy of the entire NJROTC program in conjunction with the repeal of some of the nation’s military’s policies. The club has yet to come into existence due to my parents’ resistance to its purpose and consequences. I’ve attempted to have a sympathizing classmate found it instead.</p>

<p>@wadawada: the thing about liberal arts schools being drug infested and such came from the third or so link on a google result. It was a forum thread, where supposed former students were posting. Of course, they did seem a bit vulgar. I’m extremely liberal by the Political Compass’s standards and would love to meet hippies and such, but I don’t want to go to a college with too many drugs. But that is an exaggeration. Right?</p>

<p>My greatest worry is that a liberal arts college will end up being a waste of money. Will it get me into a good graduate school? Where are my chances best? I don’t want to hurt my chances just to satisfy my hobbies.</p>

<p>What about core curriculums?</p>

8

<p>I think what you have done looks great. Here are some additional things to consider:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Build a consistent record of extracurriculars. The smaller the school, the more important they will be.</p></li>
<li><p>The selective/prestigious schools tend not to provide technical skills. Perhaps take a look at the undergraduate business or engineering schools:
Business: Goizueta at Emory University, McIntire at University of Virginia, Wharton at University of Pennsylvania. (Possibly Claremont McKenna College.)
Engineering: California Institute of Technology, Harvey Mudd College, Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Either way, you will want to aim for Calculus BC your senior year.</p></li>
<li><p>Maintain a positive attitude about others.</p></li>
</ul>

9

<p>I’m not sure you are clear what Liberal Arts are because you said you find them vaguely important, but most people think English, Science and Math are extremely important. A Liberal Arts education is the best choice to improve your chances of graduate school an professional school. Even research universities like Harvard, Yale, Brown and University of Chicago all have Liberal Arts models for their undergraduate programs. Repeat: anyone who graduates from Harvard College has a Liberal Arts education.</p>

<p>A Liberal Arts education encompasses learning critical analysis in these main fields: literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, and science. There is nothing inherently liberal or conservative political about them or the students that study such. Whatever you are reading is propaganda or just ignorant. All college viewbooks are ‘advertisements’. </p>

<p>Liberal Arts Colleges are just schools that don’t have a grad school. They are dedicated to undergraduate education–and research is available to undergrads. They usually won’t have an engineering school (some do), but they usually have 3/2 agreements with Engineering schools should students want to go that route. </p>

<p>If you are looking for technical skills, look at community colleges and state colleges. Many state university will offer nursing, accounting and other types of degrees, if that’s what you mean. Those schools usually will have general education or distribution requirements in the liberal arts as part of your graduation requirements.</p>

<p>It isn’t time for you to pick schools yet. Instead, spend your time educating yourself about a variety of schools of different sizes and locations. Also investigate if they are need blind in admission, and if they promise to meet full demonstrated need or not. Run an EFC calculator.</p>

<p>Any extremely select college will not be easy for you to get into. They will be high reach. That’s why the smart parents here advice you to start by selecting your safety schools. Then look at match schools. When you are happy with that list, that pic a few reaches, then a few highly selective.</p>

<p>Drugs are readily available at all colleges–so ‘drug infested’ to you, I guess–that includes Yale, University of Michigan, UCLA and any other one I can think of. It is up to you to pick who you hang around with. Using hot button words like drug-infested, hippie, feminist, activist is just sterotyping and not very productive for evaluating academics and opportunities. Smoke and mirrors.</p>

10

<p>Your interests sound a lot like my own! What you should probably go looking for, then, are schools that are good all-around. If a university has a reputation for excessive bureaucracy or overcrowding, you may want to avoid it- those will make it harder to take classes outside of your major once you declare. On a related note, core curriculums… are very different for different people. I hate the idea of them, so I applied more to schools that would let me stretch out on my own (open curriculum or just loose requirements). If you don’t mind a little more structure, though, a heavy core curriculum would mesh well with your wide range of interests. On the other hand, you can’t avoid some subjects that you dislike or even hate- for me, physics is probably going to make me turn down UChicago if I get in.</p>

<p>A few random things… you might think next year about writing one of your essays on your activism, since it really sounds impressive from here and obviously means a lot. And, since money is a worry for you, remember that ‘love thy safety’ should be your first rule.</p>

11

<p>In my last post, that should be “means a lot to you.” (Can’t edit, I’m on my iPod.) Also, the worry with LACs tends to be that you won’t be able to find a job easily- grad school shouldn’t be an issue! As for technical skills, well, I think we’re all confused about what you mean. You might look first and foremost, though, to schools with a lot of undergraduate research going on and schools with a more pre-professional feel- ones where a lot of the students are in engineering/business/health-related fields.</p>

12

<p>Ah. I meant to put quotations about those criticisms. I honestly love diversity, but a school full of the enlightened is not diverse. It’s boring. I want to be able to talk to intelligent people on all parts of the spectrum. There have to be things there to be an activist about. As for feminists, the jerk-filled forum thread put a terrible picture of someone painting a mural with her menstrual blood in my head and I got a bit disgusted. I can see that those feelings/prejudices were unreasonable now.</p>

<p>If I do go to one of those, though, how is Macalester, really? It was the most appealing college mail I’ve gotten so far, but its lack of selectivity and relatively low rankings are discouraging. I tend to see high selectivity as equalling less idiots.</p>

<p>And now I can see that as conflicting with my whole “go somewhere where work can be done” principle. Agh, I’m floundering.</p>

<p>In the end, I want my college days to be about fun, learning/discussing, and eventual success. I want to come out as an awesome person on a mission, but also as an awesome person on a mission who isn’t in total debt.</p>

<p>And, now that I think of it, I probably need to be able to convince my parents that IdealLiberalArtsCollege > In/Near State University, especially Duke. They really want me close by. [So they can judge me]</p>

<p>I mean, before I began googling things, I thought my mail from Williams and Swarthmore were from crappy colleges. Never heard of them.</p>

13

<p>Oh, I know what a liberal arts education is; don’t worry. I just see the liberal arts schools as places for those progressive thinkers, since Macalester put up that persona.</p>

<p>If the top universities all provide the liberal arts experience, then I’ll work even harder to get there. That’s been my plan from the beginning, after all.</p>

<p>I just don’t want to go to a college that only teaches me the things I directly need to know, like all-Bio/Health classes if I end up going Pre-Med. I want to be able to learn about the ‘useless’ subjects I love that my high school either can’t provide with enough detail or that I can’t find time for.</p>

14

<p>Ah. I get it now. </p>

<p>Great, thanks for all the info. Ignore my hanging questions/worries; they’ve already been answered. </p>

<p>Again, thanks, thanks. I knew this forum would be worthwhile.</p>