A Final List? You tell me...

College Search & Selection
1

<p>In advance, THANK YOU!</p>

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<p>Stats are on this link...
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=72651%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=72651&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>My schools...</p>

<p>Reach:
-Wharton (ED)
-Stanford
-Duke</p>

<p>Iffy (maybe 50/50):
-Chicago
-Northwestern
-Cornell</p>

<p>Match:
-Claremont McKenna
-UC Berkeley (in-state)
-UCLA (in-state)</p>

<p>Safety:
-UCSD & all other UC's</p>

<p>I've started to consider some LAC's & picked out Amherst, Bowdoin, & Haverford. If you feel I should replace another school w/ any or all of these three, let me know why.</p>

<p>Also, any NON-UC safeties that I should look at?</p>

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<p>And what I'm looking for...</p>

<p>-Strong econ and/or business department. If it is a business school, I still want the school to be involved some w/ the arts.
-Excellent grad/job placement
-Class Size: as small as possible.
-I want a school that has a strong intellectual environment, but at the same time I still want people that are in touch w/ the "real world"
-Strong relationship w/ professors
-Work hard, play some...if you know what I mean. I don't want to go somewhere people ONLY study, but I don't want to go somewhere where people only part & drink either.
-School Size: medium (~6,000 total), but I'm flexible here. Small enough to have a cohesive community feel but big enough that I don't have all my classes w/ the exact same people for 4 yrs.
-Moderate political environment where both sides are presented (ideally favoring liberal, but only slightly). Also not too heavy of a religious influence.
-DIVERSITY (this is what turned me off @ most LAC's)
-Good weather would be a plus, but it's not a deciding factor.</p>

<p>If I'm forgetting anything, ask me. </p>

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<p>Thanks again. It is incredible the time you people put in to help students out w/ their college choices!</p>

2

<p>It's a good list. I might actually add a safety other than the lower UCs if you want strong business program and job placement. UMich would be a good one and it should be safe if you apply early.</p>

3

<p>Seriously add Dartmouth. You are perfect for it, don't fall for the stereotypes.</p>

4

<p>Somehow, Dartmouth seemed to me like an Ivy for the kids who want to say they went to an Ivy. Of course, I was hoping you, slipper1234, would be a much more informed possible alumnus/a who could turn me away from that thinking :). I'm looking for a school with arts (symphony orchestra) available for watching/listening to or better yet, joining. Though I don't plan to major in music, I really would love to play in college, and instead am interested in medical school, so maybe a Bio major. Should I apply? What's the sym orch like there?</p>

5

<p>...That's a lot of schools.</p>

6

<p>You need some matches and safeties that better mimic the reaches, with the size & intimacy you want.</p>

<p>Try looking at some of these:</p>

<p>Bucknell, Lafayette, Rice, Syracuse, Union? Maybe American or GW? Maybe Washington & Lee? Maybe the "honors college" at a top State U (so you'll have both the intense relationships with profs AND a big enough environment?)</p>

<p>If what you want is 6000 students, try looking for a safety that gets you closer to that sort of spot.</p>

7

<p>sorry Michigan is on there...knew I was forgetting one.</p>

<p>Slipper, worth filling out another application for Dartmouth RD (which is quite a reach for me)? What school do you suggest I eliminate (if any)?</p>

<p>I guess it is a lot of schools. All the UC's are on one app so I believe it comes out to 10 applications, which is reasonable. </p>

<p>SBmom, I know...I am not happy w/ the safeties (I would be very sad if I ended up at UCSD. Not b/c I'm too good for it but it's just not what I'm looking for). I am very happy w/ Michigan & Claremont, which are matches. UCLA & Berkeley are worth it to me (despite their size) b/c of the Cali cost discount. I will look into the ones you suggested...of the ones you mentioned, which are matches & which are safeties?</p>

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<p>Midwest, in fact that is the opposite!! I found SO much more "HYPS" envy at Columbia than what I experienced at Dartmouth. I never ever felt for a second people were only there because it was an Ivy, rather they found it to be an absolutely endearing institution with amazingly happy students, alumni, with a great quality of life. The orchestra is there, and an entire center is devoted to the arts/ music but I speciafically dont know much about it.</p>

<p>Stam, I would add it even though its a reach. You never know where you will get in, and every extra option is absolutely worth it.</p>

9

<p>

You should take a look at Williams. Excellent performance opportunities as well as medical school placements.</p>

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<p>I am not absolutely sure re which are matches and which safeties Washington & Lee and Rice are reachy. The others more match/safeties. </p>

<p>BTW I hate to say this but I don't think CMC is a match for anyone. Even if your stats ate towards the top of admitted students, when a school is that selective it means they turn down very qualified kids too.</p>

<p>OTOH, Pitzer could be a match.</p>

11

<p>You should post your UW/W. No one wants to look at all your grades and calculate it. UCB and UCLA should be considered reach schools. What is your UC-weighted GPA? Likewise, UCSD is not a safety, the others should pretty much be. </p>

<p>I think you might want to take Chicago off the list because it doesn't do business and they stick to theory and shun "applied" undergrad studies. It just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the big schools you name. The class size is very small though. I think the LAC's are too small to fit your criteria. Amherst is also extremely selective--</p>

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<p>It is post near the top of the pg, but here it is anyway.</p>

<p>UW is 3.72.<br>
W is ~4.3.<br>
UCGPA: 4.25</p>

<p>I (& others) have considered UCB/UCLA matches b/c they do not consider freshman grades. I have a 3.6 UW soph yr & a 3.9 UW jr yr + test scores well above each of their 75th%tiles. While I understand that I am far from an auto-admit, that is the logic that has placed them as matches (I am in-state too).</p>

<p>I am mostly interested in majoring in economics, so Chicago is great in that regard. I happen to really like Chicago's environment in terms of intellectualism & learning. Chicago is a little different compared to any school, but I still like it. :)</p>

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<p>cornell? are you serious? it has the highest suicide rate in the country and its business department isn't as good as other places. I strongly suggest that you reconcider that form NYU, UMich, UNC, or USC.</p>

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<p>I agree with those who say that ucla/ucb are reaches...or at least "iffys" according to your classification. You have the numbers, but with the comprehensive review (theirs is rather obscure) you need to consider the admit rate for these schools. 21-22% for men..not matches for anyone.</p>

<p>Claremont admitted 23% of the men applying last year. I'm not saying your stats don't fit, just that the low admit rate makes the term "match" pretty meaningless. I don't think one should consider any school with an admit rate lower than 30% a match,unless your stats & ECs are exceptional.
I would also suggest adding USC to your list (although being a CA native myself, I understand why you might not want to). I see the appeal of Chicago with your interests..if you loved Chicago, you would up your chances considerably going ED.If you're in love with Penn, I'd go ED there, too (instead). Both of these schools give EDers a real advantage. Good luck.</p>

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<p>stambliark, if you're looking for intellectual economics, small classes, excellent grad/job placement, real world business interest, liberal but balanced, work hard/ have fun too, exposure to arts, you should put Williams back on your list. If you're ultimate goal is Wall Street then you couldn't choose a better entree. The President is an economist and believe me their economics department is second to none. Classes are focused, intense. The tutorial program (two students one professor) is as small as it gets.</p>

<p>My guess is that you're going to end up at a larger school anyway, but if you're investigating LACs (which is a good thing to do even if you decide they're not for you) and if Amherst and Bowdoin sound good, then Williams would be a natural addition, moreso, I think than Haverford. Visit, make up your own mind.</p>

<p>As for safeties, UMich rolling is a wonderful option. If you get your application in early (as soon as the apps come out, which I believe is September), you can learn early whether or not you're accepted. If you'r in, then you've got a safety in your pocket. If not, then you know early enough to recalibrate your list.</p>

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<p>This makes me nervous. It is being made to sound that every school on my list is a reach, which is discouraging. Not only that, if UCLA/Berkeley are reaches, than even my "iffy" schools are near-impossible reaches. </p>

<p>momrath, Williams will be a huge reach for me, as will Amherst (Bowdoin & Haverford will be lesser reaches). I am hesitant to add any of these schools to my list as my list seems a bit reach heavy as it is & I have 10 applications to do. The reason I chose Amherst over Williams (to apply to) is primarily due to William's emphasis on preppy athletics + outsdoorsy activities. Both Amherst & Williams are schools I will not be able to visit prior to acceptance. Going up the CA coast is all my parents seem able to manage, plus possibly a week-end trip to my ED school, Penn. With all this in mind, if you still think I should apply to Williams I'd appreciate your explanation (not criticizing or anything I just wanted to explain my rationale & would like to know yours).</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone's advice so far. :)</p>

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<p>most mentioned on post #6 would be matches or safe matches at worst. Maybe also Occidental, Gettysburg, Dickinson, etc? Look at LACs and Universities in the 20-50 ranking range for other ideas. </p>

<p>You can consider "UC" a safety-- just not necessarily the campus you want. But according to your OP, you want a smaller school anyway.</p>

18

<p>Stambliark, I wouldn't like to go to ANY college without visiting first, even Penn. Penn's a wonderful school and Wharton A+ for business, but if you're imagining an east coast version of Stanford or Berkeley, you'll be surprised by the environment. If you can get to Penn for a visit, then you should find a way to get to a few New England schools at the same time. </p>

<p>I'm not going to get into a discussion of which is better for you, research U or LAC. I went to UMich and my son goes to Williams so I have a pretty good idea of the strengths and weaknesses of both types of schools. I think the difference depends mostly on the type of teaching style that suits your style of learning.</p>

<p>Since you're thinking about applying to schools in a wide range of sizes and environments you may need a rather long list. I'd say 6 U's, 4 LACs. If you apply to UMich rolling early in the Fall, that could be your safety. If you don't get into you'll know early enough to revise your list. Since you're not sure if you even want an LAC, I'd make the LAC group all reaches and spread out your U's to include reach/match/safety.</p>

<p>I also don't want to "talk you into" applying to Williams, especially if visiting isn't in the cards. All I can say is from how you've described what you want from your education it meets all the requirements -- and then some: "intellectual economics, small classes, excellent grad/job placement, real world business interest, liberal but balanced, work hard/ have fun too, exposure to arts." </p>

<p>From what you've told us I'd say that Amherst would also be a good choice, as would Hamilton, Colgate, Bowdoin. There is extensive overlap among these schools as well as with Dartmouth and Cornell. I don't see Haverford fitting in this group at all and Chicago is iffy for undergrad.</p>

<p>Of all of the LACs Williams comes to mind when you say: "I still want the school to be involved some w/ the arts." Not sure which arts you're looking for, but they are all pretty well represented at Williams. </p>

<p>Don't get sucked into that "preppy/white/jock" nonsense. The difference between Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Trinity, Colgate, Penn, Cornell and Dartmouth on this point is miniscule and the label is meaningless. From your background -- almost Eagle, involved in athletics peripherally and personally, pragmatic plus intellectual interest in economics, you sound as if you'd enjoy the atmosphere at all of these schools.</p>

19

<p>I really appreciate that. Sounds like a good idea. I definitely will look into it in more detail, and may still have some work left on my list. :)</p>

<p>I will not attend any college w/o visiting. But for the most part, my parents & I agreed that we will visit some schools to get an idea & then do the final visiting in April at the specific places I am accepted at.</p>

<p>Given my stats, is Williams/Amherst a reasonable reach? I made an effort to eliminate the near-impossible reaches (despite my interest in Harvard & Princeton, I let those go). If it seems like I have a shot there, I think I'd be more interested. </p>

<p>The visiting is definitely an issue, and I will do my best. But a 2-3 week trip up & down the eastern coast is out of the question. I'll see if I can get my parents to give a little more on Penn & the like. </p>

<p>Thanks! :)</p>

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<p>Stambliark, There's nothing in your stats that would keep you out of Williams or Amherst. You have a shot, but they are reaches for just about everyone. They both have very low RD admission rates but comparatively high ED rates. Both focus a lot on the "personality/character" of the applicant: how s/he would fit into and contribute to the campus community. Depending on how you represent yourself in your applications you could do well on that front. </p>

<p>Essays are important at both (a little moreso at Amherst). Neither interviews, but both notice whether or not you've visited. Recommendations are very important.</p>

<p>Williams has more focus on sports (though Amherst kids are equally athletic). Your sports related enterprises would be of interest to Williams. </p>

<p>Williams has a very active arts community and needs artists, musicians, actors, dancers to fill the ranks, both academically and as ECs. Don't know if you're a performer or a spectator, but either way, this is a plus for Williams. Amherst town and the 5 college consortium have a lot of arts related activity, but it is not directly generated by Amherst College.</p>

<p>If your ability to visit is limited, I'd recommend Penn, Amherst, Williams, Dartmouth, Cornell and Bowdoin. This trip would involve a fair amount of driving but doable in a week.</p>