That would imply that there is the reverse imbalance in the CCs? If so, I’d think we would have heard of it.
The interesting metric about community colleges would be the age distribution of the two sexes. I bet the data is super messy. My daughter took an intro to philosophy course at our local CC one summer while she was still in high school, and her interesting observation was that most of the older students in her class were guys trying to get college degrees. And again it’s great that people have this opportunity but it’s not what the article is talking about.
I rarely watch TV, but every time I do, I happen to see some variation of the commercial with the idiot husband and the mature wife. And then you expect our male teenagers to act mature?
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You’ve seen this, right?
Infantilizing college freshmen? Is this the new (or not so new) normal? - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums
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And arguably, structures that do exist to provide support to that group may meet with vehement opposition and be forced into abandoning their original objectives. This article about the “Men’s Center” at U of Oregon struck me as notable:
“The group states it wants to revise what may be considered traditional masculinity into something that ends “oppression,” according to its website”
When I was growing up, my dad was part of various men-only social/business groups like Rotary (other parents were in the Freemasons etc). None of that seems to be a thing for my generation, let alone my kids’ generation.
I agree. It’s a pretty damaging caricature.
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I can’t agree with you more about the positive role that some of these mentorship programs have on our kids. My D benefitted tremendously from Take Your Daughter To Work Day, career programs hosted by the Girl Scouts, and various STEM programs targeted to women.
I also agree with the poster who commented about how men are portrayed in a lot of TV shows.
Mentorship matters. And how we portray people matters.
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No, those who goofed off in high school get get into college, and not just at the community college level.
I work at an open admissions university. We offer programs from the AA (well, GEDs and professional licensure, too) all the way up through the PhD, and for undergraduate admissions yes, we’ll take you if you goofed off.
You’ll definitely have to work once you get here, though.
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Worth noting: Any studies of differences in behavior between men and women have found that in most every way, the variation within each group is greater than or equal to the differences between each group.
Trying to essentialize male or female behavior is doomed to failure. As a result, trying to say that the college-going gap between men and women is due to some behavior or another is difficult, at best, to demonstrate.
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I’m sure it is. I’ve read some pretty compelling articles based on brain imaging studies about the differences in frontal lobe maturation between young males and females that can drive many behaviors related to school performance. But this is not within my field of study so I might have misunderstood.
What do you think is driving the data trend in the article at the top of the thread?
I have precisely zero idea.
And I also know that a lot of researchers who are a lot smarter than me about this sort of thing have some ideas, but nothing that fits all of the data.
It is definitely not new that boys have to sit still in school.
In fact, I’d say that there is so much more variation built into the schooldays today, and less discipline. I’m sure my parents’ generation had to sit still a lot more, and if they didn’t, they were beaten.
They didn’t sit still after school, though. I imagine that boys not only sit in front of screens more than girls do, but it also hurts them more.
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Behavior or abilities? There’s lots of examples of behaviors being significantly different. More men go into stem than women, but that behavior doesn’t mean the underlying ability is different. I understand what you are saying, though, and don’t dispute the bigger point.
I think the discussion above about the difference existing in the African American community for decades and why we care about it now all of a sudden, now that it is impacting white men (the historically overachievers) is profoundly important. Both looking backwards (what systemic racism has done and continues to do) and looking forward (any group, even those who are the most historically privileged, can be vulnerable to economic disruption without the community being conscious of it, if the right levers are pushed). Seems to me proof in and of itself that the systemic racism people debate about truly exists. Sorry to go off on that tangent, but that thought stopped me in my tracks. Thank you for pointing it out.
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At the risk of showing my ignorance, who are the Five Families? I’ve not heard this phrase before.
It’s a complex problem with few clear cut causes or solutions. While I’m a firm believer in the value of going in to the trades, too few of the men who are eschewing college are going in that direction. They are more likely to be drifting along in ill-paying jobs that offer little financial security or the possibility of a stable life. I’ve got two family members that dropped out of college after one year - while both are self supporting and live independently their financial prospects aren’t great and they work a lot of hours just to get by.
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I think it is because girls and boys are raised so differently. Behavior in boys is tolerated that would never be tolerated if girls were to act that way. Heart breaking article in the NYT on the adult roles many young black girls must assume while still children themselves-caring for younger siblings, eldercare, jobs to support the family. It is admirable that the girls do all this, but I expect they have brothers, too, and those brothers do not seem to be acting in a similarly responsible manner.
This seems to extend now more to the middle class as well, at least in my experience. Mothers expect help with housework or babysitting from their daughters but seem to excuse their sons playing videogames.
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Thanks. I’ve learned something new today!
An interesting video clip on CNN about this very topic. The NYU Professor says that the “most dangerous person in the world is a broke and alone male, and we are producing too many of them in this country”.
He also says that college educated women have no interest in non-college educated men, leading to mating inequality, which will “pose an existential risk to our economy and our society.”
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Your quite welcome. TBH, I only know about the Five Families because of that scene in The Godfather where Vito Corleone (Marlon Brando) refuses to go along with the other crime bosses in allowing heroin in their territories (with the understanding that it would mostly be pushed in minority neighborhoods.) If I say anything more I will have to attach a SPOILER ALERT.
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