I teach AP courses to freshman (AP Euro) and sophomores (AP US). Our school does not offer honors in Social Studies- kids take regular or AP. Approx 35-40 freshman and 70-80 sophomores take AP out of a class of around 250. Our dept is the only one to offer AP to freshmen, kids can take APES as a sophomore. The thinking is, the only way to understand how AP works is to DO it. My scores are above the national average, but not by much. BUT- our schools scores in AP Gov, AP Psy, AP World, and AP Econ (which are taught to juniors and seniors) are EXCELLENT- b/c a large % of kids in those classes have already taken an AP
Thanks for the clarification. DS’s school is semestered so the AP courses are as well. As a result, some AP courses taken in second semester actually have to be accelerated a bit because our school year ends in June and the AP exams are written in May. Since the program at DS’s school is new they currently only offer a limited number of AP courses with the bulk of them being in the math and sciences.
My D18 took 3 AP’s last year and is taking 4 this year. She gets a mix of A’s and B’s in them. She chooses to take them because she’s interested in the subjects and the teachers are excellent. She says she’d rather get a B in an AP than an A in regular. She is applying to a few top tier schools but knows that she’s more likely going to be going to one of her match/likely schools and she’s fine with that.
Fwiw, she got B’s both semesters of AP Lang. Teacher gives very few A’s. But she received a 5 on the AP exam and 36 and 35 on English/Reading so even though she got B’s she feels she’s learned a lot.
A 93 average in a regular class as a precursor to taking honors/AP may be high (this is a college prep school so they’re demands are high), which is why they allow the teachers to make the final call. That being said, I still don’t believe a student who is getting less than a B+ should be taking a higher level class. It’s always better to take the level of class that you can do well in. Colleges want you to challenge yourself, but if you get a C in the upper classes, then it’s not worth anything anyway. To say that they would learn more in a higher class is silly. If they’re getting a C or less, they’re clearly not learning, and why add to the stress? It means that the student is in the wrong class and cannot keep up with the rigorous demands. At that point, they’re better off in a regular class.
^^^ “I still don’t believe a student who is getting less than a B+ should be taking a higher level class.”
I have known many, many students from the time I was in high school until now when I have kids in school who get less than a B+ because they are bored in an easy class. In other words, sometimes a child will make a C in an easy version of a course they might make an A in if it is more difficult and the student is challenged. Not to mention that how a student learns and is tested will also affect his scores. A student who has difficulty memorizing dates might not do as well in a history course that focuses on who-what-when multiple choice of events rather than an AP course that focuses on comparisons/contrasts essays of the significance of events.
Whether or not a student takes an AP class should be left up to joint discussion among the student, parents, and educators involved.
I think this depends on the student, the school, and the subject. My kid was one who really preferred the pace of more challenging classes as well as the level of engagement. With that said, he was more than happy with a B in those classes (even though he got 5s on the AP exams) because while he did the work, he didn’t kill himself to do it as well as he might have. As @bjkmom notes, some kids work at that level regardless of the class. Was i happy with that?
Not really, but I felt like he needed to work that out on his own (which he did. - senior year. Too late in some regards, but he learned about himself in the process and ended up at his top choice school all the same, albeit with a fair number of sleepless nights on my part.)
So what did he get out of it? Knowing what engagement in the classroom looked like and wanting it in college. Exposure to topics at a higher level. Seeing the work of smart kids who applied themselves more than he did and understanding those standards. Learning that being smart isn’t enough, especially when everyone else in the room is also smart. Learning that some things come morearly easily - that not everyone has the same gifts or interests.
By the same token, he got in a little over his head in both math and science at a few points, and I think it resulted in a weaker foundation and a little less confidence. However, he did learn to ask for help and had to really work at learning, which is often a new experience for kids who have sailed through school up for most of their years. He also learned that a C isn’t the end of the world, especially if you really worked hard for it. And since he had started high school thinking this might be what he was most interested in, he also got to rethink that before starting college on that path. (This is a common refrain among his friends, btw. )
His school required students in AP and IB classes to take the exam so they’d all be committed to mastering the material by the test date. Students were not allowed to take classes for which they were unprepared or in which they would slow the class but if they didn’t work, well, the consequences were all theirs. I think DS also learned the importance of getting the load right. If a lot of time goes into one class, that’s time that isn’t available for another.
For him, this path allowed him to learn his own lessons about learning and be better prepared for college. (He did much better in college than he did in high school.)
I feel like we’re cheating our kids of the chance to take risks and experience a little failure (in the form of a B or C??!!) and experiment with how they learn when we only want/allow them to get As. And yet I realize that the system can impose really harsh consequences on kids who “work it out” through experience.
It’s a tough call. I think we want our kids to succeed and thrive, but does not necessarily mean getting As.
I’ve been thinking about this some. When I started this thread I had just finished reading a number of threads by students who were concerned about “how many APs to take” or “should I take this AP or that AP to impress a college”, and of course is it better to get an A in a regular course or a B in an AP. I guess in away it’s kind of a CC problem (kind of like the first world of college student selection). There is a good chance that outside of the CC bubble students don’t concern themselves as much with such questions. I don’t think that having 14 APs is going to impress Harvard etc. . any more than 5 well considered ones. I may be wrong but neither of my kids applied to Harvard etc. . I am of the belief that students should take an AP class if they feel they are prepared, they want to, it will be a benefit to them in college and/or they feel they will learn from it. I don’t think AP loading is a good reason to take an AP. A regular class you want to take will probably teach you more than the AP you suffer through and I think be more reflective of the student.