We are just starting to investigate nursing programs (kid wants to be one). The best I can fathom is that one of the better gauges of a program is how many students pass that exam at the end of four years - putting aside other factors such as direct admit, etc. I am pleasantly surprised that, at least in our state, some of the best passing rates come from schools you’ve probably never heard of. Of course there are other factors involved in choosing a school, but we are finding that in some professions name and cost are much less a factor than expected.
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Why is the appropriateness of a choice of a college tied directly to post-grad employment compensation like an ROI analysis? If her kids went where they wanted, and loved it, why would she be upset?
It would be like choosing a home solely based on expected appreciation rather than where you wanted to raise your family.
I can see that that analysis in WHAT you want to study (CS vs. Philosophy, Engineering vs. Photography) but not WHERE. If you can afford two schools, but prefer one for WHATEVER reason, isn’t that well worth paying a premium?
^^^
Well, if you’re going to pull my quote out of context, then you’re still going to be scratching your head. Read it again IN CONTEXT…
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Imagine if my sister had borrowed the money or had an underfunded retirement? Imagine how upset she'd now be seeing that her kids' coworkers went to Cal Poly or UCI or CSUFullerton for a fraction, and are being paid the same as her kids?
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If her kids had just been allowed to be spoilded kids, going where they wanted without any regard to their parents’ situation, she would now be upset to realize that she had hog-tied herself financially (huge loans/poorly funded retirement) needlessly. College is only four years…it’s not the dream. Life is the dream.
@lostaccount The mantra is simply accepted at this point when it comes to medical schools.
However, if you use data points like GPA of 3.5 and MCAT of 32 you can prove it does matter where you go undergraduate. The acceptance rate into at least one medical school is virtually 100% from an elite school, and elite is not just the top 10. The national average for a 3.5 GPA and 32 MCAT is 45%, so in fact it does matter where you go, otherwise the acceptance rates would be the same.
^but this is not about an average SUNY student. The mantra is about someone who could choose, which is a well above average SUNY student.
The above attitude is why student loan default rates are skyrocketing.
^Yet the schools with the biggest student default rates are actually for-profit institutions that explicitly promise career training.
If money were no object to the students/parents posting, then you wouldn’t see these types of responses. Most who post here, I am finding, have to consider the ROI due to the fact that they and their parents will need to finance life after college, which may include large loan payments. Is that terribly difficult to understand?
Interesting how different people read different threads. When I read the thread about MIT vs. UCSD, it seemed to me that most posters were recommending MIT.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1888160-am-i-making-a-mistake-by-turning-down-mit-for-ucsd-comuter-science-and-engineering-for-160k-p1.html
I think the issue is that we all bring our own life experiences into the conversation, and that is what a discussion forum is, a conversation. If my child posted we could do it, but it would not be without difficulty, the not without difficulty would be the emphasis of our at home conversation. For someone else, the focus might be on the we can do it. When people respond, that perspective is influencing their answers.
Reading this forum, I get the distinct impression that many of the posters are more financially secure than the typical American household.
Posters here will have different views about the ultimate purpose of tertiary education. For some, it is white-collar trade school. For others, it is intellectual finishing school. For some, it’s a little bit of both. If you have to take out large loans for any program, even a “practical” one, it’s probably not a good idea.
As for educational ROI, there are other forms of evaluating it besides the monetary (something many people on CC do not seem to understand), but no experience in the world is worth debt slavery.
Not interested in an argument here, but they are your words, and your other post doesn’t seem to contradict my analysis of them.
In the two threads I referenced (MIT vs UCSB and Nursing), loans were not an issue, as I had mentioned. I would also contend that there is a larger correlation to field of study and inability to pay, rather than private vs. public.
No it’s not hard to understand at all. But it is also not my point. I clearly mentioned that I was not referring to things that couldn’t be afforded; but rather people who assume that others should take the less expensive route because of a theoretical and obtuse ROI calculation.
By the end of the thread, many were. What I can’t understand it why so many others said to the student “don’t make the choice you clearly want to make, even though you have received a rare opportunity to study at the #1 school in your field, because you might not make up the difference in dollars over your career.” That’s the thing that baffles me.
Education is never a waste, but I think posters may have been trying to point out that for vo-techy majors (engineering, nursing, education, social work), the outside accrediting bodies or state licensing boards really level the playing field in terms of education within the major. And in those fields, there really isn’t a better ROI for going to an ivy. Like it or not, that matters to quite a few people.
Lots of posts on cc have “worth” in the title, but that’s such a subjective criteria. If a student’s family has the money and wants to spend it on an ivy, it’s “worth” it. If a student is low income and the ivy is the school with the best offer, sure, it’s “worth” it. Even if the offer is close to other offers, sure the ivy might be worth it for any number of reasons.
By the way, Yale also offers graduate programs in nursing.
If one wants to go to an Ivy for nursing, cost is no factor, and the parents and student are looking for a traditional college experience, I say go for it.
On the other hand, if a large amount of debt is involved, and the student has no plans to stay and work in the NE, I’d reconsider. Harvard is known everywhere. University of Pennsylvania is not. In many places, U of Pennsylvania will be confused with Penn State. A whole segment of the population is ignorant of the fact that Penn is an Ivy league school. So if the student is looking and paying for prestige in addition to the education, they could find their ROI to be very low if they are returning to an area of the country which doesn’t have the same reverence for the Ivies. Much less if they don’t even recognize the school for the Ivy it is.
This thread pretty much immediately devolved into the same old tired argument that is always the most supported viewpoint on CC. It will continue in that fashion way past the point of exhaustion. Thank you for trying, though. 
I don’t recall seeing any threads where affordability and debt weren’t a factor when the question was about the “worth” of an school. If a student has a school that is highly favored and easily affordable, why would he/she post a thread asking for input on the value of that education?
In the referenced MIT thread the OP stated " It will be more than half of their combined yearly income." That’s a large burden and leaves no room for financial setbacks, and should give anyone pause.
loans are not the only indication of unaffordability. I think some kids just don’t realize how much $240k actually is, and how many other very important things can be done with the money. It is not play money, free money, Monopoly money or go find yourself money…
What it is:
-The cost of a house in many areas (half in some, multiple in others).
-5-10 years retirement $.
-3-5 years starting salary
-1-5 years parental salary
-3-20 years savings
-20x more than most people have in their 401k
-5-10 new cars
There are a negligible amount of college kids for whom cost is truely not an issue. And for those kids, their parents may pay much more just to “get them in”. For the rest of us, even those who can afford it, we must spend wisely, as there is only so much income we can make in a lifetime.
It is easy to urge the child of a billionaire to choose The nursing program at Penn at whatever the cost. But for normal people, $240k is still a TON of money. And as most kids don’t have any money, I prefer seeing the kids who post understanding just how much it is. The ones who think it should just happen bc they worked so hard and mom and dad can “possibly” swing it? Not so much. It is their money. Respect that and spend it wisely!!
The title of this thread specifically mentions nursing. Nursing is a practical profession, and as such is quite the different animal in some ways. For many students, it makes no sense to go for an Ivy education for nursing if it involves a huge amount of debt or if it is going to be a big financial burden on the parents.
Anybody can fee whatever they wish and nobody’s feeling is wrong, it is apparently correct for a person who has them.
However, many in D’s medical school class who attended UG at Ivy’s felt that attending at Ivy’s was in fact a waste of their family resources. They did not feel that they had any advantages in being accepted to medical schools, no academic advantages while at medical school and no advantages whatsoever when applying to residency in very selective specialties.
Again, if one wants to attend at Ivy’s, why not? I say thank you very much for NOT competing for Merit awards at other schools. People like my D. definitely are very grateful to you as you are one big reason why they graduate without student loans.
^^^Huh? The reality is that the people who come on here to ask whether the higher priced, more prestigious school is worth it are typically those for whom the money is not just sitting there waiting to be spent. There are those posters who do not think any school is worth the extra money and will post that sentiment every time. But most threads with that question get nuanced responses from seasoned posters and the answer is typically - it depends. There was a recent thread about Lehigh vs Penn State Millersville and many thought Lehigh was worth the extra dollars. In the MIT vs UCSD thread, many thought MIT would be worth it, if it would not bankrupt the parents.
For a nursing degree, especially for someone that wants to do something different than be a nurse at a hospital or in a doctor’s office, the degree from Penn or other Ivy may be worth the cost. It may be worth the cost for the environment and education. But for a full-pay family in which spending an extra $150K would involve raiding the 401K or home equity, most would argue that the prestige and arguably better education is not worth it.
There are schools where a kid will have much more trouble getting into a Wall St firm, a top accounting firm or a top law school, even if they have a 4.0 and top LSAT scores. Yet Yale law school entering class profile includes Michigan State and Us of Wyoming, Idaho, Texas-Dallas and Louisville. It may not include U Mass, but certainly not all of the students came from the Ivy League.
" But most threads with that question get nuanced responses from seasoned posters and the answer is typically - it depends. " - Isn’t it what I said: " if one wants to attend at Ivy’s, why not? "