A painful incident

<p>It won't show up on the transcript, they only ask if you were suspended. I would not write about it, just learn from it SILENTLY. It will not be an issue. Kids get in school suspensions for using a cell phone in class, being late. If suspended from school then you would need to write about it for sure and it would be an issue., would need to be reported. Freshman and sophomore year is not as bad as junior and senior year incidents.The guidance counselor will not address an in school suspension on a kid that has no other incidents and does well, ask her to ease your mind, however.</p>

<p>On a side note, boys cross country teams are notorious for getting into mischief. It is always a group of individuals that are amazing students, great kids, wonderful achievements.never in trouble but after doing 10 mile runs sometimes the team mentality takes over and the playfulness gets a little off. We saw it on my S's HS team and other x-country teams. My S now thinks the HS team is so immature , when he goes back and visits or watches a meet. We laugh as his memory is so short, he does not think he or his team was ever that immature.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your very helpful words. I just read all of your posts with my son. He is beating himself up more than you can imagine. He strives to be a top student. He is so worried that this will effect his goal of going to a great college. You're right. It has been a huge reality check. I always thought that he would never get into trouble. I also thought that he has perfect friends. I should have known that no child is perfect and that even "good kids" will make bad decisions.</p>

<p>Burlmom:</p>

<p>Please tell your son not to beat himself over this. Adcoms have been young once. As teenage pranks go, this is a very benign one, and I am sure adcoms will see it that way. He has learned a hard lesson that actions have consequences. It is far better that he learned it early in his high school career than later. He has time to grow and to prove to himself and others that he learns from his mistakes. Let him perform the community service and then put the incident behind him. It is far too early to start worrying about college anyway.</p>

<p>Veteranmom, Just curious: Many of the college applications I've looked at ask the question "Have you ever been arrested, indicted, or convicted for any violation?" How did your daughter manage to avoid answering that question if she was sentenced to community service by a court?</p>

<p>If you are under 18 you can't be arrested unless the crime is a misdeamenor-you are merely "taken in to custody" once you turn 18 your Juvenile record is wiped clean.</p>

<p>I don't know specifically about Veteranmom's situation, but here in MA, there is something called "continued without a finding" by the judge. If you stay out of trouble for a certain amount of time, and also abide by any conditions set out by the judge (which can include community service), the entire record is expunged, and it's as if it never happened. So it's not a conviction. (Although I'm not sure if the arrest record is also expunged.)</p>

<p>A top student at our high school (close friend of my D) also got into "trouble" this year as a senior. Four buddies in the AP Physics class had tshirts made up, each one featuring a physics equation beginning with one of the letters of a well known curse word (one had F = ma, the next had U = whatever, etc. ) and wore them to school. The school called the parents of those involved, and they got detention or in school suspension, too. The one boy we know well had never been in any trouble, and is the son of very strict immigrant parents. His family was VERY upset and I think he was punished by his family in addition to the school punishment. However, he is still going off to a top college the same as if it had never happened. I consider this prank pretty similar in nature (innocent prank, but poor judgement) as the incident of your son. I'm sure it will be forgotten long before he starts filling out college applications.</p>

<p>On the issue of expunging records, see Kinshasa's thread on the Parents Cafe. I also want to reiterate that whether a record is sealed or expunged is not at issue; if the application asks about expulsions, detentions, etc... the applicant MUST answer truthfully. If caught lying by omission, a student may have the admission rescinded, and if already enrolled, may face expulsion.</p>

<p>The biggest effect of suspensions at our school, is that whatever papers, test, quizzes, projects, etc that were due on the day of suspension, the student gets a ZERO on...so if you get suspended and the next day is a test, well, its a zero</p>

<p>I would disclose it- there is too much of a chance that it will be revealed, even if it is "after a silly incident before soph year.....S turned into a mature young man...." My S (Wild Child) will be attaching a rap sheet to his applications. He has suspensions and an expulsion in soph year, which will actually be 3 years prior to his hs graduation. There was no violence, substances or academic dishonesty involved, and it was at a prior school. He will be writing a concise supplementary essay about the circumstances and what he learned. His guidance counselor does not expect it to have any affect on his chances at MOST schools, although it is possible that an AdComm could decide it is a scale-tipper the wrong way.</p>

<p>MOWC - would you disclose it even for common app schools where there is no question to catch this?</p>

<p>My younger son was involved in a similar prank-like incident in May, so I've looked into this a little bit. The consequence for those involved was to be placed on probation for first semester - and some college supplements do ask about probation, so he'll clearly have to explain the incident to those schools. But his college counselor thought he wouldn't need to disclose to schools using only common app (as currently worded).</p>

<p>Wow, the applications are not confessionals. You definitley need to honestly answer the questions and write an explanation but if they ask about suspensions and you only have recieved an in school suspension or detention that is not what is being asked. Most applications are not interested in this they want to know if you were arrested , suspended, or expelled. If they ask if you had detention(I have never seen that question anywhere) then by all means answer it. Ask you GC for clarification, or ask a rep at a school you are not applying to, or have someone ask at the specific school but not mention your S's name so you will feel you have all the info and are interpreting the question. Not being honest will definitely come back to bite you but you don't want to reveal info that is not asked for that could hurt.</p>

<p>Jrpar:</p>

<p>If the application form does not ask, then there is no need to disclose. A number of colleges, however, have application supplements where the question is indeed asked. In that case, I strongly urge disclosure. Whereas adcoms may be lenient for long ago pranks, they will not be so lenient about more recent sins of omission when the student is supposedly more mature and responsible.</p>

<p>I agree. I don't think in school suspension is the same as suspension, as it is more like an internal disciplinary action of the school, during the school day.</p>

<p>Marite - yes, I agree you would have to answer honestly if the question is asked. I've seen a number of college supplements that specifically mention probation, so there would be no question at all in the case of those schools..</p>

<p>I asked the question about common app, because I think MOWC made a good point that you wouldn't want a silly incident to come out in an inadvertent way, and then found yourself in a position where you hadn't disclosed it.</p>

<p>burl, While I agree that this isn't soemthing you should lose sleep over or disclose uneccessarily, I don't buy the 'completely innocent' business.</p>

<p>Super bright boys decide to climb a roof? Okay. That could be seen as an adventure sport. </p>

<p>Then, they decide, (DECIDE being the operative word), to lower themselves down into the school while the school was closed? Through a roof hatch?</p>

<p>Baloney. They absolutely knew what they were doing. They thought they wouldn't be caught. End of story.</p>

<p>On the list of Crimes They Could Commit, this is a very minor one, but it is still a crime and I would treat it as such. </p>

<p>That's me. I am not one of those parents who expects or demands angelic behavior. We are all human, including very bright children who need to learn lessons from the parents.</p>

<p>My 1975 senior class broke into my private girls' school a few nights before graduation--as a so-called 'prank'. As naughty and foolish a child as I was, I was never stupid or arrogant enough to rush into the buildings with the other girls. I lay in the tall grass of the hockey fields, debating myself, until the police arrived. </p>

<p>Then I snuck away, none the worse for wear.</p>

<p>Absolutely no disclosure on common app if there is no supplement asking "the question". However, all but 1 of S's schools will require the explanation. Indiana will not get to hear the story! One thing I have learned is that there are LOTS of kids who have suspensions or other disciplinary "issues" in high school. Many of these kids go on to highly selective colleges. The key is WHEN the infraction occurred and what the kid learned from it. We know a boy who continued to accumulate offenses into his senior year- nothing really horrible, but enough that he wound up only getting into 1 college. He also had some uneven grades, despite high SATs.</p>

<p>Well, I guess I am with Cheers. Personally, we know of a young man who had received an appointment to the Air Force Academy early in senior year, and then committed a "prank" (pouring a gallon of milk over a car in -60 degree weather in the school parking lot). Student was not suspended, but it went out in the mid-year update and the offer of appointment was rescinded. </p>

<p>Our son probably had a good understanding of consequences since he was on the receiving end of consequences visited upon other members of his swim team. He had to make a decision between presenting his AP Bio project at the college and participating in a championship swim meet. This lowered his AP Bio grade from an A to a B, as the presentation was part of the grade. Since his team had the chance to break a state record in the relay, he gave up the Project and went to the meet. Can't let the team down. Then 3 15 year old teammates got in a food-fight (our son walked away when they started messing around) and were disqualified from the meet. So, our son's sacrifice for the good of the team was all for naught. He never forgot that, and realizes that his behavior reflects not only on himself but has ramifications for others. He is now about to begin his second year at the Naval Academy, where honor, character and committment are the values they live by. It is all about choices.</p>

<p>I don't think Burlmom is claiming her son is completely innocent. In fact, she wrote:

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I always thought that he would never get into trouble. I also thought that he has perfect friends. I should have known that no child is perfect and that even "good kids" will make bad decisions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I also think that a prank in freshman year is going to be viewed differently from a prank in senior year, and colleges will look at misbehavior somewhat differently from service academies. Burlmom and her son are hurting. Let's not pile it on.</p>