A Parent who needs help

Parents Forum
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<p>I have taken the liberty to voice a paren't problem that was addressed on the transfer thread.</p>

<p>This is her thread for her son at Columbia University College of Engineering on the Transfer Thread
perhaps, parents can give her better advice</p>

<p>Transfer Reality </p>

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<p>My son has been in an engineering program at an Ivy League school, and has done rather poorly. He has a GPA of 2.6, and wants to transfer out of the school, and switch to Political Science so he can get into law school.</p>

<p>What is the reality of the situation? He has more than 60 credits now, and is in the middle of his junior year. I don't know what he is up against. What will schools he applies to look at? If he is in engineering and wants to get into Political Science, will they pay more attention to his high school transcripts? Will they put a lot more weight in his GPA? Should he bother even trying to apply to other Ivy League schools, or is that out of the question now?</p>

<p>Thanks for any help you can provide.</p>

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<p>One good point of your son's situation is that LSAT scores count SO VERY MUCH in law school admissions. I do not know if or how law schools will look at your son's grades differently in his last two years, but even if he has not learned engineering well enough to get a high GPA, hopefully some of the approaches in his science, math, and engineering classes have had some positive impact on how he thinks.</p>

<p>Advice #1: Transfer into his preferred major soon, and get as high grades as possible.</p>

<p>Advice #2: Spend a lot of time prepping for the LSAT (including taking a course or tutoring, if possible). A few points difference on this test seems to make a HUGE difference in law school admissions.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
He has more than 60 credits now, and is in the middle of his junior year. I don't know what he is up against. What will schools he applies to look at?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think that if he is in the middle of his junior year that it is going to be pretty hard for him to transfer anyplace becasue he would not be able to meet the residency requirement at another school to get a degree (at least without doing more time). Is an internal transfer to Columbia College a possibility?</p>

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<p>I don't think that having an engineering degree is a hindrance to law school and would, in fact, be considered a plus for patent and intellectual property law.</p>

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<p>Isn't it all about the LSAT with law school admissions? I thought most any challenging undergraduate program meets prerequisites for law school (and med school if you get the minimum life science credits completed). I'd talk to an admissions counselor at my desired law school about admissions requirements before I would change degree programs. An engineering degree from Columbia is nothing to sneeze at regardless of GPA.</p>

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<p>Couple of thoughts - is there a reason he doesn't stay at his current school and switch from the Engineering School to Arts and Sciences and change major?</p>

<p>I am in the midst of helping my S look at transfers (since he is a Tulane EE Freshman and they are discontinuing that program). Scanning various Transfer Admissions websites from a variety of schools gives me the notion that transferring when already in the junior year would be pretty rare. Typically, the want transfers to enter as Sophomores or Juniors. Does he have particular schools in mind?</p>

<p>Again, from my limited and budding knowledge, I do not think they will be looking at his high school credentials very much. You are probably hoping that they will since his GPA is lower than you would like. Colleges do realize that Engineering GPAs tend to be lower than others, but for the most competitive schools, I do think a 2.6 will be tough. This is why I question why he doesn't stay put and change majors?</p>

<p>Give us a little more info and we may be able to help more. I also agree that, if his sole reason for changing majors is to enhance law school chances, it isn't necessary. However, if he wants to lighten his load and get the GPA up, it might help to change. Does he feel he will do better grade-wise in reading heavy/paper heavy courses? Lots of Engineering/math/science types don't take well to that type of courseload.</p>

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<p>Changing schools and majors this late in the game may make it difficult for him to complete a major in the standard 4 years, so he will need to consider this carefully. One option might be to complete the engineering major with some easier courses, if possible, to bring up his GPA while there, but save his law school prereq classes until after his degree is awarded. He could take these in a semester or two at a different college as a post-baccalaureate year to demonstrate that he is capable of a 4.0. This is a common practice for pre-meds with non-science majors.</p>

<p>Another option might be to sit out the next semester to work on the transfer to the Arts and Sciences at Columbia, then repeat the entire junior year. He might need to do this in any case to complete the major requirements in Poli Sci and his distribution requirements. This would allow an extra semester, rather than an entire year, to get his GPA up.</p>

<p>High school GPAs won't play a role in the law school admissions process, but the LSAT is a big player, so as pafather points out, adequate preparation is key.</p>

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<p>Ariesathena is someone who could share some advice on this as she did chemical engineering at Tufts before applying to law school. She worked for a couple of years before applying. She is well aware of the issue of engineering GPAs. Perhaps a PM to her will work.</p>

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<p>and, bball, thank you for the kindness of bringing this issue to the Parent Forum for the Transfer Thread OP. I'm not sure if she's looking here, so maybe you could direct her here - especially to marite's idea re ariesathena.</p>

<p>Checking the transfer thread, I see the OP has addressed several of our suggestions and there are obstacles (perhaps insurmountable, perhaps not) to moving between SEAS and other parts of Columbia.</p>

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<p>I guess my question is why is he doing so poorly. ?lack of interest, course work too difficult, does he need tutoring? Is the doing poorly the motivation to transfer, or is he truly not interested in this vocation anymore.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the cross-post, bball87.</p>

<p>I'll try to answer some questions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think that if he is in the middle of his junior year that it is going to be pretty hard for him to transfer anyplace becasue he would not be able to meet the residency requirement at another school to get a degree (at least without doing more time)

[/quote]

He is willing to meet the residency requirement because he has hardly any typical core classes. The core classes at Columbia SEAS are very different. Most likely we are talking about 2.5-3 years more school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Is an internal transfer to Columbia College a possibility?

[/quote]

No, unfortunately.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't think that having an engineering degree is a hindrance to law school and would, in fact, be considered a plus for patent and intellectual property law

[/quote]

He wants to get into international law, so this isn't an option, I'm afraid.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'd talk to an admissions counselor at my desired law school about admissions requirements before I would change degree programs.

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Very good advice, will be doing this, thank you.</p>

<p>
[quote]
is there a reason he doesn't stay at his current school and switch from the Engineering School to Arts and Sciences and change major

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It's fairly complicated but we've checked all avenues and nothing at Columbia seems open to him other than continuing in engineering. So, the option is closed. Must find another school if he isn't getting the engineering degree. He cannot change majors there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
if he wants to lighten his load and get the GPA up, it might help to change. Does he feel he will do better grade-wise in reading heavy/paper heavy courses? Lots of Engineering/math/science types don't take well to that type of courseload.

[/quote]

He will do better with the reading heavy/paper heavy courses. Not as well oriented to engineering.</p>

<p>Continuing on the engineering path at Columbia isn't that great an option for him. He wants to switch vocations altogether. And I think it's a wise decision for him, honestly, after watching what he's gone through in engineering. He's truly got a passion for international law, so this is a great decision.</p>

<p>Because he has very few core courses that will count in an Arts & Sciences school, he may be at an advantage in that the other courses that he got low grades on may not be taken into account. I talked to an Admissions Officer at NYU that was hesitant about the GPA but assured me that if the core course grades were good, and if he completes his essays well, including information about his reasons for the transfer and backing up his situation, they will take it all into account. </p>

<p>On the Transfers discussion board, bball87 posted:

[quote]
They look at a 2.6, and then they look at the next kid up and they see a 3.6, and it just won't do it.

[/quote]

This is my major concern. I just don't know if we can overcome this obstacle. We're going to contact the schools he is interested in and see if he should even bother. I know he wants to attempt to get into Brown, NYU, maybe Cornell, Boston University, and his favorite choice right now is University of Chicago. He may have to lower his expectations and go to a state school, and get his GPA as high up as he can before law school. Even then, like someone said, it might be wise to sit out for a year or so to get the last semester grades in before applying.</p>

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<p>And, suchow, although you may not be familiar with ariesathena, I think it would be a great idea to PM or email her. She posts from time to time on this forum, and is a young woman who has made the switch your S is contemplating. Although she completed the Engineering degree, I believe, she may have investigated other possibilities. She is now in law school or a lawyer (I forget) and may have some specific knowledge of how different schools look at Engineering GPAs vs. others.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
And, suchow, although you may not be familiar with ariesathena, I think it would be a great idea to PM or email her.

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</p>

<p>Thanks, I'll do that!</p>