A parents perspective on paying for college, explained to a high school senior

Parents Forum
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<p>It’s better to think this through BEFORE you end up with expensive debt and great limitations on your future, even if it puts a damper on your excitement. The rule of “loving your financial safety” is a reality for most folks and allows them to have a better start without a mountain if debt from undergrad years. “Fit” of Us can easily be over-rated and large enough schools generally have all kinds of folks and some work by you can help figure out where you can find your niche. Both of my very different kids found their niche at their very large U as well as their small HS.</p>

<p>$30K/year by your folks is indeed MUCH more generous than many are able to get. You are indeed fortunate.</p>

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<p>What about a SUNY school? The tuition, even for out of state kids, is very low. But at most of the SUNY schools you get an incredible education and the schools are fairly well known. Check out Binghamton, Stonybrook, and Geneseo. Please do so, because as a fellow high school senior, it makes me sick to think of any of my peers, even those I’ve never met who live halfway across the country, taking up such debt and all of the responsibilities that go with it.</p>

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<p>[Binghamton</a> University - Admission: Undergraduate Admission: Costs and Financial Aid: Affording Binghamton](<a href=“Cost & Aid | Undergraduate Admissions | Binghamton University”>Cost & Aid | Undergraduate Admissions | Binghamton University)</p>

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<p>You’ve had good answers about the dangers of taking on too much debt (don’t do it!). Let me answer your other questions. What is it like, as a parent, to pay for college and what is it like to pay off loans.</p>

<p>When I graduated from college, I had one small loan ($1500). I was low income. I had Pell, SEOG and substantial merit, so I did pretty well. Then I married a student loan. Dh had 3 of them, actually. Consolodating them would have lowered the payment, but drastically increased the repayment period. What did that mean for us as we tried to get started. It meant a very small apartment. (We tried living with H’s dad, but that really didn’t work out well.) It meant old, beater cars always on the verge of breaking down. It meant NO money for anything that was not abosultely necessary. Our TV (wedding gift) had rabbit ears. No cable. We didn’t make long distance calls. Going “out” meant going to the grocery store together. Seriously, it sucked worse than you can imagine. </p>

<p>What is it like paying for college as a parent – well, it’s not nearly as bad as paying back the loans as a student! We’ve been saving, but even meeting our EFC for d2 in two more years is going to be a stretch. We’ll make sacrifices. For example, I work at a private lac. There are some tuition benefits with my job. If d2 can get exchange, it means staying at a job I’m ready to move away from for 4 more years. Means the same for dh, because if I can’t go anywhere, neither can he. Financially, we’ll delay purchases, we won’t travel, we’ll brown bag it for lunch, we might even delay medical care. </p>

<p>As a parent, paying for college also means saying no. No, we can’t afford certain schools. No, we won’t cosign a private loan. No, we can’t send you there. That might be the hardest part.</p>

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<p>One way to think of the debt is to imagine the life you want to live after your undergraduate is done. With the amount of debt it would take to earn your NYU degree can you live the life you want? Will you be able to afford rent, or will the large loan payments require you to move back home with your parents? Will you have enough for travel? A car? Will there be enough wiggle roome to explore/have an adventure? </p>

<p>$20,000 in debt seems reasonable with paymenta in the $200 to $300 range. $80,000 for you to cover the NYU gap with payments closer to $900 will not provide you with a lot of great post graduation options. </p>

<p>These are the things my D and I talk about all the time. You need to be able to live your life at the end of your 4 years. Make sure you have the budget for some adventures.</p>

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<p>Things to ponder:</p>

<p>NYU is an expensive school w/weak financial aid. Its target-market could be perceived to be students from wealthy households who want a NYC experience and have financial resources to allow living costs well above national averages. There are many “better” schools than NYU. Perhaps students are more attracted to the Greenwich Village locale than its academics. And those stats may be exaggerated too.</p>

<p>College education alone no longer guarantees an upper-middle class lifestyle nor strong employment prospects. Those posted starting salaries are only the start of a relatively gloomy picture. Many college grads are facing very difficult employment prospects, perhaps years of contract employment assignments w/o benefits and freelancing.</p>

<p>Law school is no longer a guarantee of an upper-middle class lifestyle. Since about a decade ago, law profession has undergone dramatic changes in employment profile. Career opportunities are increasing limited, particularly for grads of 2nd-tier and 3rd-tier law schools. A group of Chicago law school grads from such schools are suing their law schools for fraud, for misstating employment numbers. In Illinois, there’s supposedly only employment opportunities for 1/3 of recent grads passing bar exam. That’s a horrendous shortfall in employment. Many grads are bartending, store clerks, barristas, etc.</p>

<p>While 6-figure school loan debt used to be a reasonable prospect, given professional school grads’ long-term strong employment prospects and earning power, that has also changed. A family member had $150,000 in student loan debt in early 90s, but also made 6-figure salary, which increased to 7-figures as he moved up corporate ladder. Those opportunities for “non-star” Top-50 grads are far more limited. As an architect, I know many young architects saddled w/6-figure loan debt (M.Arch cost) while living in an expensive city and earning about $50,000/year - if they can find a job at all (unemployment for recent M.Arch/B.Arch grads is over 15%). That kind of debt will limit personal choices and lifestyle for many many years after graduation.</p>

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<p>Here is the explaination of Obamas new student loan repayment plan. </p>

<p>[Ensuring</a> That Student Loans are Affordable | The White House](<a href=“Priorities | The White House”>Priorities | The White House)</p>

<p>and another income based loan article</p>

<p><a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid;

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<p>“What do middle class families do?”</p>

<p>They go to their in-state flagship or get merit aid from slightly lower ranked schools where the student will be in the top quartile, but only if it brings the cost out same as the in-state flagship</p>

<p>Or, they go to CC and then in-state school…</p>

<p>My advice: go to CU Boulder. It’s a great school and large enough that you will find your niche, so I don’t buy the ‘fit’ argument. Don’t forget that money you save on tuition can go towards: study abroad, a nicer dorm, spring break trips, sorority or other club dues and fees, eating out and socializing, internships, or towards grad school…all these things that make a college experience so much more than the classes…</p>

<p>You are very lucky to have such a good option (and maybe others?) and supportive parents who are willing to contribute towards your education. Best of luck.</p>

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<p>I wish I had considered SUNY schools. I would have applied. Binghamton, out of state for me even, is only a few thousand more than CU Boulder. I guess I have to wait another year though if I like it enough to apply and transfer. And yeah I really don’t want to deal with $100k in debt for four years. I wouldn’t ever consider it. Nor could it ever really happen because my parents will absolutely not cosign for that. </p>

<p>There are certainly better schools than NYU. I labeled it as my first choice for a lot of different reasons. But I could have a good experience elsewhere too, for less. I’m not really one for money and things to be honest but I definitely want to be comfortable and have money to travel and see things while I have the time. </p>

<p>Those statistics on employment are really upsetting. </p>

<p>I definitely appreciate what Obama is doing to help make education more affordable. While I was looking through federal options, most of the programs that I looked through were cut in 2011. Like I would qualify for any of them anyways. Sadly, there is no “upper middle class students whose parents have personally elected not to finance a private education” scholarship fund. Not that there should be, I guess just one of those times where I can’t have what I want.</p>

<p>I think that’s part of why I applied to NYU. I couldn’t really wrap my head around the idea of what $60,000 was, and how I could pay for it. I wish my parents had the discussion with me more, but I also should have thought about it. Don’t really have the financial literacy. I’ve honestly lived a very VERY comfortable upper middle class life, my parents could technically ‘afford’ NYU but they’re too close to retirement, and it pains me to think of asking them to take out a second mortgage especially since my sister is two years behind me. </p>

<p>Plus I have $120k guaranteed for college. I feel kind of bad complaining when one of my best friends is seriously considering dropping out of CU because his family is so incredibly poor. </p>

<p>Unless I can get mad scholarship money from the outside, I guess I’m at the point where I’d cap it at $10k per year in loans. Sacrificial, yes, manageable, probably, I definitely see it as a worthy investment. </p>

<p>I suppose I do want to go to grad school. Shouldn’t limit myself even if it doesn’t work out. Especially with a Public Health degree, I really want to work more closely with the science of it or in policy and I can’t do that with a B.S. </p>

<p>But to get into a good graduate school, so I can get a good job, don’t I have to go to a top tier undergrad? Or is that just a myth? Could I do incredibly well at CU Boulder or another school that was more affordable, kick butt on my LSAT or MCAT or other graduate standardized test, save tons of money at CU and since I had such high honors and grades get scholarships there to further save money, and be able to do grad school? </p>

<p>NYU IS a top tier law school if I end up wanting to go the law route. I’ve done seriously minimal law school research, but I did see a table that compared NYU Law acceptance rates with GPA and LSAT score. And it seemed a lot more straightforward. If you got a good score on your LSAT, with this GPA, you were pretty likely to get in. </p>

<p>Obviously it’s still very competitive and you have to do more than just grades, but how much do grad schools really care about where you got your undergraduate degree? Provided you didn’t come from community college or anything.</p>

<p>There is so much to think about. Thank you for all the honest advice so far about the reality of student debt. It makes me feel a lot less disappointed about not being able to go exactly where I want to go. </p>

<p>I’m still going to try for scholarships of course, I really hate giving up until I’ve tried everything. Merit is really my only hope, and unfortunately my cumulative GPA isn’t as strong as I’d like it to be because of some learning disability struggles. Worst situation for a kid on the fence who wants more. Government can’t afford me, but neither can my parents. </p>

<p>A lot of things could happen in the next four years. Maybe with a semi fresh start and some super hard work I could afford more of a luxury with scholarship. Who knows. </p>

<p>College should be way more accessible, and it should be against the law to take advantage of naive undergrads the way private loaners and schools do. Why more people don’t publicly complain about the fact that corporations are profiting off of making it difficult for someone to have a halfway decent future is pretty beyond me. </p>

<p>Maybe someday there will be total education reform and I can quit my job and go to college forever :)</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Most of them do face debt, but it helps to have little or no debt from your undergraduate years on top of law or medical school debt. For many students, this means choosing an inexpensive undergraduate school (often, the state university of their own state) to avoid incurring any debt.</p>

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<p>Even $10,000 per year is above average in student loan debt (and is greater than the subsidized Stafford loan limit).</p>

<p>Four years at CU Boulder should be doable within the $120,000 total limit. If you need to go cheaper, go to community college and take courses transferable to CU Boulder in your major, then transfer to complete your bachelor’s degree.</p>

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<p>I’m talking 10k in private loans. </p>

<p>I could get through CU with some left over if my parents footed the whole bill but they’re making me take out $5k per year myself anyways.</p>

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<p>

What?? There doesn’t need to be ‘hope’ - there are facts. If by ‘hope’ you mean that anyone should be able to do whatever they want anytime regardless of cost or means to pay, then you’re looking at something that’s unrealistic and unnecessary.</p>

<p>There are lots of college options from commuting to a CC for 2 years then transferring and commuting to a local 4 yr state college at the least expensive end to something like NYU at the expensive end. At the end of the day you end up with a degree from one or the other that are likely not vastly different from each other and in some cases the state schools would be arguably better than NYU anyway (some of the UCs, UVA, some other state schools).</p>

<p>Don’t confuse ‘wants’ with ‘needs’.</p>

<p>On the loans - use a simple loan calculator available all over the internet on banking sites and many others. Plug in the amount of money you need to pay back (principal), interest rate, and the number of years you anticipate paying it back over and it’ll tell you the monthly payment. This can be an eye-opener. For example, $120K at 5% interest paid back over 10 years is around $1,272 per month. You could do a lot with an extra $1,272/mo for 10 years after graduation.</p>

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<p>A few sobering items you should check out before borrowing money or applying to law school</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/871140-education-all-costs-myth.html?highlight=student+loan+debt[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/871140-education-all-costs-myth.html?highlight=student+loan+debt&lt;/a&gt;
(this thread started by gravenewworld in the parents’ forum - lots of other threads on topic of debt also)</p>

<p>and this NY Times article:</p>

<p><a href=“For Law School Graduates, Debts if Not Job Offers - The New York Times”>For Law School Graduates, Debts if Not Job Offers - The New York Times;

<p>Not intended to squash your dreams, just to help you avoid “if only I had known” syndrome.
Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>born2dance94 mentioned SUNY Binghamton. </p>

<p>Interestingly enough, back in the early-mid’90s, SUNY Binghamton was actually harder to get into/had a little more prestige than NYU CAS and in some cases…even Stern.*</p>

<p>Have you looked to see if Colorado participates in a state university tuition exchange program with other states such as Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, etc? </p>

<ul>
<li>A lot of HS classmates had no issues turning down NYU-Stern for CUNY-Baruch for undergrad business…and then later going to NYU, Columbia, and even Harvard for their MBAs.</li>
</ul>

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<p>To respond to the question about law school admissions – it is almost entirely about your gpa and LSAT; how “prestigious” your undergrad is not much of a factor. I helped review law school applicant files in my law school teaching job, and I attended a top ranked law school. In making recommendations about admission, we looked first at whether an applicant met the gpa/last range we wanted and then looking for something interesting about the person that might stand out. Undergrad school had little to do with our assessment. And to look backwards, my law school class had heavy representation from Harvard College and Yale University; beyond that it was completely up for grabs, with students coming from state schools all over the country, lacs etc.</p>

<p>School debt is crushing – I took public transportation in a car-crazy city because I couldn’t afford car, gas or insurance. I bought clothes second hand, lived on peanut butter etc. I think I had about $400 a month after my loan payment – try paying rent, groceries, transportation out of that (ok, it was the 80s). I think my loans took 2/3 of my monthly income. And I didn’t even have debt from undergrad. </p>

<p>Good luck with your exploration of these issues.</p>

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<p>OP - I applaud you for thinking this through NOW before committing to a school.
Most folks around me simply sign up for the debt and then are crushed by it. Not a pleasant outcome.</p>

<p>It is frustrating when a student has been told to work hard & you’ll get your choice of schools because that is just not the reality.</p>

<p>Outside Loans – Be aware, if you qualify for financial aid, most institutions will reduce your financial aid/ campus job opportunities by the outside scholarship amount. This is logical since the “need” has been met by the scholarship, but many students forget to view it as such.</p>

<p>Don’t dwell on NYU - be happy that you were a strong enough student to get into the school and a smart enough person to consider the ramifications of attending a school that would cripple your future if you took on sizable debt.</p>

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<p>Give Binghamton a call. Seriously. There’s a fair possibility that they’ll still let you apply.</p>

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<p>Credit/debt can be a useful tool, but you really want to know what you are doing or you could get into big trouble. If you choose to incurr debt, you should think about how much you will need to qualify to buy a house in the future. You may choose to incurr debt to buy a car. You could severely limit your options if you weigh yourself down with debt in your early twenties with UG student loans.</p>

<p>Do you want to marry and have kids some day? If so, do you wnat to own the house your live in. You could close the door on that without even knowing it if you are not careful now.</p>

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<p>The financial talks need to happen early on.</p>

<p>Must focus on the “net” figure; with us it was that the net cost had to start with a “2” (i.e., below $30k per year); if it costs more than you can afford you just can’t go there </p>

<p>and for us no student borrowing; that’s a sea anchor that just slows you down </p>

<p>good news? the national average 4 year tuition is just over $29 k</p>

<p>it’s kind of like clothes: never pay full price</p>

<p>P.S. a friend of one of our kids got accepted into Tisch a few years ago and couldn’t go because it was not affordable . . . so he went to different school, is having a great time and is getting to do the kind of theater work that he wanted to do . . . the meaning for the OP is this: the world doesn’t end if you can’t go to NYU</p>