<p>xiggi bad stuff happens. Sometimes to good people. Just as it is ludicrous to condemn religion when you see on the news that some kids were killed riding a church bus; it is equally as ludicrous to condemn all fraternal organizations because of accidents or criminal behavior of a few.</p>
<p>It is not my position to attempt to “convince the friends or the family of the poor souls who have been killed” as nothing I can do will ever bring their loved one back.</p>
<p>What has happened in these situations is truthfully horrifying, however these people are not just “teenagers” if that is a term being used to denote an age of less than majority. Both the deceased as well as the people in positions of leadership are in fact consenting adults. You must remember that most of the members of Greek organizations are the same age as our soldiers fighting and dying in the war overseas.</p>
<p>I have no idea what fraternities are. But how in the world does one guzzle beer? In college back in India we went for hard liquor almost immediately. Far cheaper that way.</p>
<p>@ IndianParent: I definitely agree that hard liquor is cheaper and better than beer!</p>
<p>Hazing is illegal and against the charter of all organizations. The sensationalist media would have the public believe that fraternities are evil and do bad things to members, but really this is just hype. My fraternity is very strict against hazing as are all other organizations which I am aware. There is usually a zero tolerance policy against the consumption of alcohol by minors at parties and the house, these are enforced by both the fraternities risk management as well as hired off duty police and sheriffs which every fraternity has at their parties.</p>
<p>I always thought greek life (as it is now called) would bore me. I liked to go to some of the parties and I went to lots of them when I was in college. I never found greeks to be exclusionary and I always found them very welcoming, at least of me. I just didn’t want to be locked in to the one thing. </p>
<p>My daughter joined a sorrority her freshman year. It was good for her. She had a really good time, made some friends, but by the end of the first quarter of her sophomore year, she found herself too busy, in the arts, with other people, just with life in general, and she couldn’t really attend to the business of being greek. Also, she thought the parties were repetitive, just with themes, as in: “Let’s get drunk dressed up as this…or that.” snore. </p>
<p>She would say it is interesting for exactly one school year. After that, just wash-rinse-repeat. </p>
<p>I have no real opinion on the subject cuz I think it seems really, really important to some few people, and yet, not so much to others. As my daughter said, “When I was greek, I thought everyone knew what was going on with the greeks. Now, I have no idea WHAT they are doing and I keep forgetting to find out.”</p>
<p>YMMV, but I just think people should do what they want and not demonize it so much. It’s just a social group. I mean, who walks around saying, “Country clubs are evil things…” Nobody cares.</p>
<p>I agree with post #36. If you don’t like the Greek system…don’t join a frat. To pontificate on here that ALL frats are bad because of one instance of something gone wrong is nonsense. I wonder how many who think these should be abolished actually belonged to one or have any direct knowledge other than heresay or what they might have read in the media???</p>
<p>“YMMV, but I just think people should do what they want and not demonize it so much. It’s just a social group. I mean, who walks around saying, “Country clubs are evil things…” Nobody cares.”</p>
I’ll just point out that this thread essentially began as an effort to do the opposite. I’ve participated in quite a few of the perennial discussions of this topic, and it seems to me that there’s too much generalization on both ends of the spectrum. There are great Greek systems, with no hazing and no obnoxious hierarchy, and terrible Greek systems as well. (I will say that I have yet to hear of very many fraternities without a great deal of drinking.)
For those reading this who are looking at colleges, what you need to do is think about what matters to you, and then do your best to understand what the actual situation is at the colleges you are considering. Generalizations will not take you very far.</p>
<p>Excuse me? You should stop and think that you are talking about some of our kids. Perhaps you could dial back the level of insult.</p>
<p>Mine certainly is not a beer-guzzling Neanderthal. </p>
<p>I’d also recommend that you read the work of Plato sometimes called “The Drinking Party” for a broader perspective. While I’m sure the conversation at that particular party was more rarified than at the average American university fraternity house, to say the least, clearly the men of the classical period also liked to get together and drink. :D</p>
<p>It also strikes me that every time this subject comes up, we hear the same rehearsal of all of the sins of Greek organizations, but we NEVER see this backed up with any solid statistics or research. My son’s house, for example, does not indulge in hazing, nor is it economically or racially discriminatory, yet I see these things confidently asserted as characteristic of fraternities over and over again.</p>
<p>The individuals who have repeated these old saws on this thread would NEVER accept such generalizations applied to any other group of students. I certainly know how you feel: I held the same opinions myself until I actually became acquainted with a fraternity many years ago. As I’ve said, my son’s house is also not stereotypical in many ways. (Yes, they do give boozy parties, although they try to exclude drunken underage kids for their own protection, and the booze served is most often light beer.) Nevertheless, my negative opinion of fraternities is still quite ingrained. I can imagine, and see here demonstrated, the level of prejudice harbored by those who have no direct experience to contradict it.</p>
<p>And if it truly were the work of a few, this should hardly matter to the entire Greek realm. If the Greeks were truly interested in making systemic changes, they should be the first to show the right path to the spineless college officials and impose a permanent ban … themselves to the so-called few who ruin their good reputation."</p>
<p>Other Greek chapters don’t have that power, Xiggi. That’s rather like saying the tennis team should ban the lacrosse team if the lacrosse team acts up. It’s at the school’s discretion, not other Greek chapters on campus.</p>
<p>Consolation, I am curious about how your son’s fraternity is not economically discriminatory. Does it not cost money to be a member? How do people without money finance their membership? (Princeton is the only college I know that adjusts financial aid to meet the full extra cost of fraternity – “eating club” – membership. Maybe some really well-endowed chapters can cover a poor kid’s dues, but I have never heard of that happening.) How many people who can’t afford to be members go through rush?</p>
<p>I don’t believe fraternity or sorority chapters sit around and say “We can’t invite X to be a pledge, s/he is poor and a person of color.” I do believe that in most cases their rush pools consist of people who can afford membership, and who are not necessarily a representative cross-section of the applicable institution’s ethnic mix. </p>
<p>It’s not that big a deal. In an non-fraternity setting, students who are pressed for cash have trouble chipping in to buy kegs for a party, too, and you don’t need fraternities for ethnic groups to engage in voluntary, imperfect self-segregation. But it’s a little annoying to hear “Oh, we don’t discriminate” when the net result is about the same.</p>
<p>I can think of two school systems right off the top of my head where dues, room and board are CHEAPER than the dorms (Wabash and Butler). Students can use financial aid to pay for the housing as well. Many clubs and organizaitons cost money, so it is a choice right off the bat whether someone wants to go through recruitment.
Club/Intramural Sports are economically exclusionary, dance teams require funds, etc.</p>
<p>It will depend on the campus how expensive it is. Do people go through recruitment that can’t afford it? Yes. Do they end up dropping out? Sometimes.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this is still the case, but it was appreciably cheaper at NU to live in the Greek houses and eat there than to live in dorms. The houses are right on campus and right next to “regular” dorms so no sense of isolation. </p>
<p>I really don’t know if there is financing or scholarships, but I can assure you that my sorority had plenty of girls on FA, who had work study jobs, and were not upper middle class.</p>
<p>Heck, I was on financial aid at my school back in the stone ages. I paid for my dues with the job that I had during college. For me it was a priority and I paid for it.</p>
<p>You can’t play sports if you can’t afford equipments either. You certainly can’t go to college if you don’t have money. Many colleges are need blind, I guess one could say many greek chapters are need blind ( admission without taking finance into consideration), but don’t meet full need.</p>
<p>I can tell you right now that my daughter’s sorority house will be significantly less to live in than her dorm this year.</p>
<p>Another point is that my daughter’s sorority offered her a “bid” without doing a “credit check”…they had no idea whether she could afford the dues or not…and no…they didnt ask her what her daddy did for a living either…</p>
<p>"I don’t believe fraternity or sorority chapters sit around and say “We can’t invite X to be a pledge, s/he is poor and a person of color.” I do believe that in most cases their rush pools consist of people who can afford membership, and who are not necessarily a representative cross-section of the applicable institution’s ethnic mix. "</p>
<p>The sane goes for those who join the sailing or skiing clubs, or other clubs in which participation requires some kind of fee.</p>
<p>And come on, JHS – how ethnically and socioeconomically representative and diverse is Skull and Bones? I guess finals clubs, eating clubs and secret societies are “different.”</p>