There’s a way to combine an intimate academic environment with a state school’s sweep and socioeconomic diversity. More students should consider it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-a-prudent-college-path.html
Thanks for sharing this article. Yes, more students should consider Honors Colleges.
Three of our 5 choices are Honors Colleges. We have been extremely impressed by what they have to offer.
Roll Tide!
Of our 5 college choices, 3 of them are Honors colleges . We understood early on after a little investigation , the true benefits of an Honors education . Our other two choices are expensive LACs. My DS17 was able to understand the value of an Honors education without any coaching from me. It’s unfortunate that he feels the need to justify his college choices to others who are interested only in the prestige of a college or university .
I cannot imagine that the state university cost less than an Ivy, if this student was eligible for aid. Is it possible that the cultural transition was too scary for him? It seems to me that he went for a safe choice versus the ambitious one, which is fine.
But Harvard, Yale, Princeton et al are also great schools and offer a huge diversity of students from all over the country and world. Quality in honors programs/colleges is undeniable but once you get past the admissions insanity, the Ivies’ quality is also undeniable and this student might have been stretched in many ways if he had attended.
The article doesn’t specify FA or merit as the “bounty of aid” that this student is receiving, but I can easily see the state university costing considerably less than an Ivy unless the student’s family is very poor. Bama’s FA package quite possibly covers his entire COA while they may still have a “family share” to pay at the Ivies which they might find unaffordable. Additionally, the cost and ease of travel between Memphis and Tuscaloosa is much less daunting than getting back and forth between Memphis and Cambridge/Princeton, etc. as is the cost of living over the next 4 years.
Harvard gives substantial aid to families making up to $150k and is free for families under $60k, with substantial reductions in cost for those making $60-80K. I don’t consider $80K to be “very poor.” In the experience of many middle income families, schools like Harvard are more affordable than state universities. Sorry for the tangent but I don’t buy that this decision was based on finances or quality of education. Cost of living would be irrelevant since room and board is included and less then 2% of Harvard students live off campus: if they do, financial aid covers it. I suppose going out for pizza might cost more in Cambridge.
Well, here is an article that goes more into detail about his decision:
http://www.businessinsider.com/ronald-nelson-turned-down-every-ivy-league-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5
Basically, the need-based-aid-only schools, though they offered some grants, would have been a financial stretch for him and his parents (an engineer and a manager, so presumably a relatively high family income). Also, he is considering pre-med, so saving money and avoiding debt for medical school is important.
In contrast, Alabama is well known for the full tuition plus scholarships offered to students with high stats and NMF like he is.
The student was a National Merit Finalist. He got a full ride to Alabama which likely means he qualified for other scholarships there since their NMF package is not quite a full ride. He did not qualify for 100 percent aid at any Ivy even though he did qualify for need based aid- so yes for this student Alabama was far cheaper than an Ivy.
IMO, the article is indicative of a young student who displays quite a bit of maturity and common sense regarding his educational needs and wants. He sounds like someone with a good sense of self who doesn’t need external affirmation to do well and reach his goals. Unfortunately , the misperception that the only place to get a " valuable" education is at one of the Ivies is pervasive in our culture.
My DS, who also was accepted at Ivys and 12 other top colleges, also decided to go to the U that offered him a full tuition scholarship. He was enrolled in Honors classes there, met many other really smart kids, including one who received a Churchill Fellowship, graduated with honors, and said recently that he would challenge anyone to prove they got a better education then he did. He is very proud to have gone there for his UG years. And all we had to pay was room and board. 
He is now finishing his PhD at Caltech.
Honors colleges can give top students the educations they want.
I like Frank Bruni and this is another excellent article from him. As @ucbalumnus pointed out, Ronald Nelson’s parents make combined over $200k which would mean he’d have to pay near full price at any need-based aid only schools like the Ivies. Since he is pre-med the last thing he needs is a $240k loan before he even enters med school! Prudent choice indeed, and quite responsible. In addition, he is also one of 25 Fellows at Univ. of AL, selected out of an applicant pool of 1000+ students, where he will receive lots of additional leadership grooming opportunities not even available to other honors students.
Honors college is where my children are aiming for. In addition to financial advantages (almost a full ride vs. almost full pay at elite privates), there are also many other benefits, including:
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Not having to worry about a million and one ECs, sports, athletics, music, volunteer activities on top of good grades and top test scores in high school. They can actually just enjoy their high school years, especially the summers, focus on getting top grades and top scores, that’s it. No need to go kill themselves just to look good for some elite school admission officer who will most likely reject them anyway.
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Less competition, esp. for grad/med school (though they will still get plenty of competition, just not as cut throat). A lot of really bright kids who aim for STEM degrees eventually switched out of those majors in elite schools because of the crazy competition. As Malcolm Gladwell pointed out in “David vs. Goliath”, those who scored in the top 1/3 in SAT math are the ones who usually go on to graduate in STEM in every college, the bottom 1/3 usually drop out, even if the bottom 1/3 of your college’s score is higher than the top 1/3 in most other colleges. How smart you feel is relative to how you do among your peers. In addition, at a state school, you get at most 2% to 4% of seniors applying to med school, while at an elite school like Duke, something like 23% of seniors apply to med school.
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Those who tout the “connections” one can supposedly attain in elite schools often forget that you also make good local connections when you go to a state school. For those who want to remain in-state for work, to stay close to family etc. these in-state connections are invaluable. In my neighborhood the local state U football game day is almost as big as the local NFL game day. Most companies hire the most locally, including many large firms, top software firms, banks, Big 4 accounting, consulting firms. The top 3 schools Microsoft and Amazon hire from are UW, WSU and WWU.
For STEM majors and those who are planning to go to grad school who would have to pay more than half price at an elite private, going to an honors program at a State U over an expensive elite private school is a no-brainer. In tech, no one cares where you got your degree, or if you have one at all, if you can code, you are king.
But can an honors college with 6500 students meet the students’ needs and expectations?
If his family has an income that high, he made a prudent choice. Apologies.
(However, I find the prejudice against Ivies here interesting. Not everyone who goes to selective colleges lives a stressful high school life. That said, I think that the best choice is made on an individual basis, public or private, honors or Ivy, it all works out if the student has the right attitude.)
My son got into Rutgers’ honors program, full ride and the highest honor of President’s fellow or something of that sort. But when he got accepted by some ivies, we never hesitated a bit, even thought we will pay a hefty tuition for an ivy education. Indeed, the decision all depends on one’s personal choices and preferences. There is no right or wrong choice.
I love this article and really “get” where this family is coming from. The $$$$ swing is huge if you have two professional parents who make good salaries. And they’re probably heading into their peak earning years. It was also impressive to me that he thought ahead to the school years beyond his freshman year, when his sister graduates.
Even if I had the $250K sitting in the bank for a child who got admitted to an Ivy (and we don’t, and we probably won’t be worrying about Ivies LOL), part of me thinks that my child would do the same thing - go public honors, and take the balance to go to grad school, to buy a home, or to use as seed $$$ for a start-up.
All that being said, I’d still love to see an Ivy make that young man (in the article) an offer he can’t refuse! What an amazing student.
For a premed student this is a solid plan. GPA matters and cost matters. He will most likely have access to research and Tuscaloosa has plenty of places to volunteer, including free clinics, etc. Going into med school debt free just makes sense.
My understanding is that in an honors college only the intro classes are honors. Once you get to electives there’s no distinction. E.g., partial differential equations is partial differential equations. I know that schools try to continue to make a distinction and offer some special,opportunities, but my sense is that behind the sophomore year, the experience of an honors student becomes more normalized.
Strategically for grad school does to make a difference or could it even be a disadvantage? Is it harder to get an A in honors organic chem than in non-honors organic chem? In high school, AP classes are often weighted more in GPA calculation than non-AP. Not so for honors versus non-honors.
Beyond the sophomore year class sizes do generally get smaller anywhere you go.
If a student has the grades and stats to get into a tip top college, but his parents cant afford to pay the tab, then often the best thing is to be a top student paying far less $$ for an UG education at a well respected U, be able to take advantage of the smaller size honors intro classes taught by great profs, get more personal attention, and graduate with no debt and at the top of his class.
The assumption is a student such as that will be able to handle rigorous courses.
What matters to grad schools are the overall GPA of classes in the students major, the rigor of the classes taken, research , GRE or other test scores and LOR’s.
They also like it if the applicant is at the top of his graduatig class.